Become a Catalyst member

Join the conversation

We encourage our readers to leave comments and engage in dialogue about our stories. But before you do, please check out our "rules of the road."

Subscribe to catalyst-chicago.org by e-mail

catalyst-chicago.org feeds

Current Issue

School closings

As CPS prepares to close a record number of schools, the fate of students and communities is in question.

Lawmakers praise Noble Street, but vote against charter's fines

SPRINGFIELD--Noble Street Network of Charter Schools Superintendent Michael Milkie brought a busload of parents and alumni with him to a Senate Education Committee hearing at the Capitol in Springfield on Wednesday. The affection the group had for Milkie was obvious.

They sat through three hours as the committee debated multiple issues, listening attentively and looking proud as Milkie parried with senators who challenged him at every turn. They gathered around at the end of the day, posing for group photos with Milkie in the center.

The senators roundly praised what Milkie has achieved at Noble Street--a safe and secure learning environment, higher test scores and graduation rates than neighborhood high schools, noteworthy scholarship of Noble graduates at the college level.

“When I talk about the right way to educate students, I call it the Milkie Way,” joked Sen. William Delgado (D-Chicago) – even as he offered legislation to outlaw one of the key tactics that Milkie believes has made Noble Street schools so successful.

Student discipline is the central strategy at Noble, discipline demanding that students follow rules that rely on parents for enforcement. What motivates the parents? They are charged fees to cover part of the costs of the school’s disciplinary program.

The fees – labeled “fines” in recent media reports on the policy – are what “engages” the parents most effectively, Milkie told the committee. Delgado’s amendment to SB 637 would prohibit charter schools from imposing “a fine or any other financial penalty on a student as a disciplinary measure.” The committee approved the amendment 6-4, but whether it can pass both the House and Senate is very much in question.

The charge is usually just a $5 share of the school’s cost of holding a three-hour detention after school. But it can be as much as $140, to help pay for a disciplinary program teaching social skills and other subjects, which students with numerous demerits are required to attend.

There are many ways to rack up a demerit at Noble Street. Chewing gum is a four-demerit offense, and so is academic dishonesty, cheating or plagiarism. Eating outside the lunchroom will cost you two demerits, as will talking during a fire drill. Throwing anything in the lunchroom or failing to return a tray will each cost one demerit.

A student with four demerits within a two-week period gets a detention, for which his parents will be charged a $5 fee. Students with more than 12 detentions, or who have been involved in such activities as fighting, bullying, gangs or drug use or distribution, must attend the disciplinary program, conducted after school for 15 weeks or for four weeks during the summer.

All this is explained, Milkie said, in a number of places--the “contract” that a student and his parent sign as a part of the enrollment process, in information sent to parents and in the “Student Code of Conduct and Disciplinary Policy” section of the handbook given to Noble Street  parents.

Do parents object to the fees charged for misbehavior? “Some do,” Milkie conceded. But he noted that Noble’s enrollment has grown from less than 200 students at the beginning to more than 5,000 at 10 campuses today – and more than 8,000 applied for this year’s freshman class.

Because of the safe environment and the academic success that Milkie said are results of the disciplinary policy, “Parents are flocking to us.”

Noble’s students are mostly from poor families, with 87% eligible for free or reduced-price lunches under federal guidelines. They often arrive with behavior issues, Milkie said, but the typical student who may earn 12 or 15 demerits as a freshman usually gets just two or so by senior year. Students respond positively to the disciplinary code, he said, as do their parents.

Delgado explained to the committee that he knows Milkie well, respects him as an educator and is impressed by the successes. But, he said, “We just disagree about this policy.” Many constituents have complained to him about the fines, he said, and asserted that he “could have filled the hearing room” with opponents of the policy.

He also referred to recent media accounts in which students and parents decried Noble’s policy.

No public school is allowed by law to charge such fees, Delgado pointed out, and no research has generated findings that such “financial punishment” has beneficial effects.

“I don’t want to micromanage,” he added, “but we see a problem.”

Committee members Sen. Kimberly Lightford (D-Maywood) and Sen. Iris Martinez (D-Chicago) joined Delgado in vigorous opposition to the fines. “I have also heard many complaints,” Lightford told Milkie.

She agreed that Noble Street has achieved exceptional educational success, but “I just don’t know if [charging fines] is the right thing to do.”

In a response to a question, Lightford learned from a charter school association representative that no other charter in Illinois is known to have such a policy. That information seemed to her more important than any of the successes Milkie said were results of the parental engagement the discipline code and fines promote.

Martinez also told of hearing complaints about Noble’s fines, and she had a complaint of her own. Noble parents had called her in support of the policy after Delgado filed his amendment on March 7. These callers usually “didn’t even know what they were calling about,” Martinez said. “They just called because they were told to call. They tied up my [phone] lines.”

Martinez lectured Milkie about the difficult economy, the high unemployment and economic stress on low-income families. She expressed outrage that the school would collect nearly $300,000 in fines over a three-year period. “What do you do with all that money?”

Milkie said it costs Noble an average of about $19,000 per campus annually to cover the costs of detentions and the summer and after-school programs, but the fees generate only about $16,000 per campus. Parents of misbehaving students should pay the costs of the disciplinary program, Milkie said. Otherwise “the parents of those who do not misbehave will have to pay.”

Sen. David Leuchtefeld, a Republican from the small town of Okawville near St. Louis, strongly opposed Delgado’s amendment. He challenged Delgado, “Isn’t this micromanaging?” Leuchtefeld was a school teacher for more than three decades.

 “We have finally found something that works,” he said. “Why would we want to change it?”

Ultimately, Lightford and Martinez were joined by Sen. Annazette Collins (D-Chicago), Sen. John Mulroe (D-Chicago), Delgado (who was temporarily on the committee in the absence of Sen. James Meeks) and Sen. Susan Garrett (D-Highwood) in voting the bill to the Senate floor.

All four Republicans – Leuchtefeld, Sen. Christine Johnson (R-Sycamore), Sen. Kyle McCarter (R-Highland) and Sen. Suzi Schmidt (R-Lake Villa) – voted against Delgado’s measure. Schmidt had been particularly enthusiastic in support of Noble’s disciplinary policy and successful record.

Whether the bill will pass both the House and Senate and arrive at the desk of Gov. Pat Quinn to be signed into law seems questionable. Getting 30 votes in the Senate will be a challenge. Republicans are likely to be joined by at least a few Democrats in opposition.

Passing the House may be even more challenging. Speaker Michael Madigan has the persona of a leader who values discipline above everything. Noble Street is also favored strongly by Mayor Rahm Emanuel, who surely has Madigan’s phone number.

The Leuchtefeld question – “Why would we change it? – is likely to resonate.

Jim Broadway is the founder of State School News Service.

(Editor's note: A previous version of this story incorrectly stated that students, not parents and alumni, came with Milkie to Springfield, and that 12 demerits, not 12 detentions, sent students to a disciplinary program. We regret the errors.)

18 comments

me wrote 1 year 8 weeks ago

Republicans?

Small governemnt and low taxes policies and the republican's are happy about fines? CPS regular schools being acccused of being too tough? Yet these fines are almost accepted?? DOnt get it! Oh yea it's a charter..

"All four Republicans – Leuchtefeld, Sen. Christine Johnson (R-Sycamore), Sen. Kyle McCarter (R-Highland) and Sen. Suzi Schmidt (R-Lake Villa) – voted against Delgado’s measure. Schmidt had been particularly enthusiastic in support of Noble’s disciplinary policy and successful record" doesnt sound like they mind this "tax"

Accountability wrote 1 year 8 weeks ago

It is high time that parents

It is high time that parents are held responsible and accountable for their children's behavior, conduct, and decision making.

Every public school should fine students for chewing gum and other disciplinary offenses. Do you really think a parent will continue to allow a child to show up late to school every day knowing that the child is impacting the family's financial bottom line? I love it! We need more zero-tolerance discipline and financial consequences for problematic Chicago families and students, not less.

cs_parent wrote 1 year 8 weeks ago

Milke lovefest in Springfield

Not really what the CTU was looking for.
Seems like a nice Springfield outing for the students. But the bill will never pass. Most dems won't even vote in favor.
It's great we have various opinions and issues bringing discipline to the forefront.

Anonymous wrote 1 year 8 weeks ago

Why can't CPS schools do this? Since this bill will fail, CPS

schools should be able to charge parents too--especially for chronic tardies and the cost to operate detentions.
WHEN CAN CPS schools DO this? !

Anonymous wrote 1 year 8 weeks ago

Leaders of Today

I am in total agreement with the charges. Both of my young adult children graduated from Noble Street Charter Schools. Yes their rules were strict but it helped my children to be responsible. Yes they sometimes complained about how it was silly but I always reminded that life is full of rules and fees. It will help you to be responsible adults. That was 5 to 6 years ago and I can honestly say that they have graduated from college and one is starting her doctorine and the other about to start his masters. I completely give the credit to Noble Street and God of course. Mr. Milkie and his staff have and still are going a great job with our future leaders.

Anonymous wrote 1 year 8 weeks ago

Shame

I would say that the new camera system that the state passed to allow Chicago to implement speed traps will do more harm to low income families than anything. A bill that most dems also agreed with. The city finally has something great in Noble. Don't let politics stand in the way. Noble allows something that the selective schools (where my kid attends) and that is a chance for every child, not just the brightest in the bunch.

taxing the poor wrote 1 year 8 weeks ago

Charging parents for their child's behavior

There are a lot of CPS schools in low income areas. In my school, parents can not come up with the school activity fees and/or graduation fees. If we tried to implement this 'tax', the parents would consider it another fee that they are either unwilling or unable to pay. So where are we suppose to transfer their misbehaving children to. While this may work for some, please do not generalize and think that it would work for all.

me wrote 1 year 8 weeks ago

that's cps

if one policy had success in one school or in once class.....suddenly CPS wants in all schools....NOW....they dont care about testing it out nothing...just solution de jour! its their way of doing business...something tells me now they want us all to be IB schools?

Anonymous wrote 1 year 8 weeks ago

It is sad that Mr. Milkie

It is sad that Mr. Milkie thinks plagiarism and chewing gum are on par with one another. Plagiarism can get you expelled from college. It appears that academics takes a back seat to discipline at Noble St.

statman wrote 1 year 8 weeks ago

milkie

the thing i found strange about milkie is that his wife has a job at the same school he has? they were on that Fox documentary about Noble acting like they somehow were spending their own money to educate the masses..when in fact they were using public money???i dont know if he met his wife at the school....but it seemed like a classic example of nepitism?

Anonymous wrote 1 year 7 weeks ago

Noble Parent

As a parent, I'm in complete agreement with having parents pay for disciplinary issues, however, when students are giving demerits for unfounded reasons then there's a problem. It seems to me that at times, teachers depend on the demerit system to manage classrooms. It is also very important to remember that students are different and may need different types of support to help them be successful. If a student accumulates excessive demerits/detentions in a year, maybe then an alternative solution is required.

Anonymous wrote 1 year 7 weeks ago

Enforcement

So, if a Noble student racks up a bill due to demerits, what happens if the student/family refuses to pay? How does Noble enforce this? Do they withhold the course credits so that the student can't move onto the next grade?

Don wrote 1 year 7 weeks ago

Enforcement of fees

First, the family has already agreed to pay by signing a contract. The bill must be settled before advancing to the next grade. To answer the question literally, a family refusing to pay would withdrawal their student between school years. Noble certainly would not withhold a transcript. They're not a business, and would have no legal basis to do that.

I'm told that no student has ever not been advanced by inability to pay. Families can have a payment plan. In the case of deep poverty, the fees have been forgiven. The financial statements I've looked at show the school running a surplus well in excess of the fees collected. The problem with eliminating fees isn't financial, but rather changing a highly successful discipline system.

xian wrote 1 year 7 weeks ago

The ultimate issue is that it

The ultimate issue is that it is not effective for actually teaching students to operate well in a free society. What it does do is push out dissenting voices and game the test score system.

Don wrote 1 year 7 weeks ago

noble

If you want to hate Noble, be sure to avoid taking a close look. Viewed in detail, both subjectively and quantitatively, it's very impressive.

Spend a day at Crane, Orr, or dozens of similar high schools and tell me that those students are learning to operate well in a free society. Or that the difference between those schools and Noble is test prep. The reasons Noble students perform much better are easily understandable for anyone truly interested. CTU warriors generally aren't interested.

Noble and the few other carefully implement "no excuses" schools are the most important development in urban schools since the middle class abandoned these districts. Noble is in the process of proving, on a large scale, that schools can be a strong force against the momentum of poverty.

Because of Noble, in the next decade, many thousands of additional students will be attending universities more rigorous than City Colleges. I expect CTU will continue to do its best to hinder that progress.

xian wrote 1 year 7 weeks ago

Name callling is fun but,

I have no interest in hating Noble. I have an interest in an honest assessment. Noble believes in SELECTIVE education. That's their choice. I disagree with it, but I'm extreme on that, and I support people who pursue that direction in an honest fashion.

What I cannot support is those who support the comparison of Noble to schools that actually seek to educate all children. It's unscientific and leads to bad policy. To put it bluntly, it hurts children and creates a separate and unequal system.

I have sent plenty of kids to high tier colleges as well. They didn't come in with the supports that Noble students tend to.

Don wrote 1 year 7 weeks ago

Seek to educate everyone?

Neighborhood HS don't seek to educate expelled students, and don't put endless effort into older students who stop coming to school. The minimum standard of who is still considered a student is much lower than Noble, but it's still a standard.
Noble is further tracking, yes. But the extent to which Noble "cherry picks" its students is exaggerated by critics. If that was Nobel's practice they wouldn't dare grow fast or large. Noble has second year freshmen with many detentions who are not "counseled out". They also have many students in remedial classes who are doing just fine.
It seems to me that any choice of how to organize schools potentially hurts a subgroup of children. An argument in favor of school choice is that the parent can decide what's best for their child. I'm not sure how a single neighborhood HS for all is an inherently superior policy. To me it is just one way to organize education that dates from a time when was walking to school was the sole mode of transportation.
I do recognize that any decision regarding isolating highly disruptive or particularly low performing students is important as it is potentially harmful to that group. But I don't believe in denying other students capable of a rigorous HS education that opportunity based on their desirability as a stabilizing influence in neighborhood HS. Even if the CTU wish list could be fully funded (which is utterly impossible), there's no evidence that it wouldn't change HS culture enough to gain the college prep benefits of Noble.
A cynic might say that perhaps the CPS portfolio plan is triage, but the CTU neighborhood plan is hospice.

I shouldn't have written "hate" in my previous post, but I didn't find a better word at the moment.

xian wrote 1 year 7 weeks ago

Still a little more to tease out

Again, I don't disagree with too much of what you say, but all of these nuances need to be teased out. Otherwise you get decision making based on these inaccurate portrayals of the data and thus of the children in the classroom.

To compare Noble Street (and use it as a proxy for other charters in the "movement") is not even to compare apples and oranges. It is to compares apples and candlesticks.

Also, I don't think one needs to choose sides between "CTU" or "CPS". The plan should be to successfully educate all children. There are plenty of isolated places in the neighborhood schools where this is successfully built towards. But then such programs are sabotaged and intentionally decimated by central office.

That's not a plan for children first at all.

I'm not asking for Noble to implode. I'm merely asking that people don't mess with those of us who ACTUALLY want to educate all children. It's challenging enough as it is.

Add your comment

The content of this field is kept private and will not be shown publicly.
go here for more