More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
The CTU is ramping up its opposition to an expansion of Chicago's charter schools, and indeed many traditional teachers and educators see charters as educational hype more than anything else (Take Action: SB 2402 - Unlimited Charter Bill.). Indeed, not all charters have panned out, and there are some practices -- refusing to take students during the year -- that are objectionable. But on the fundamental issue of charter expansion, I'm not so sure there's a compelling argument against making high-quality charters available to parents who want them. (Neither are lots of parents and teachers, not to speak of Barack Obama and -- yes -- NYC teachers union president Randi Weingarten, who have both supported the charter option.)
Chicago's charter authorizing system -- charged with approving and monitoring the autonomous schools -- is one of the most careful and buttoned-down in the nation. New types of charters -- including ones that combine innovation with union job protections -- are being tried, and there's lots of federal and private money to help create new schools. More charter slots would let teachers and nonprofits and community organizations set up schools that are tailored to students needs. They could also slow the exodus of parents from Chicago and declining enrollments citywide.
So, why not more charters for Chicago?
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Mon May 5, 2008 at 9:27 AM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
As someone who has taught at two different charter schools in Chicago, I have seen first hand the powerful difference charter schools can make for our underserved students in Chicago. My students are predominantly low income, and they receive a first rate education here. They do well on the ACT and most of them go on to college. Until their neighborhood schools can give them the same opportunities, I will remain a staunch supporter of charter schools.
Mon May 5, 2008 at 9:39 AM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
I agree- charters are a wonderful option for students and there are sooooo many success stories in Chicago charters. Kudos to CPS for their evaluation process- it is rigorous and ensures that the schools approved are high quality and are held to high standards- and if they fail, they will be closed. So far there have only been a few closed which shows that the process if working-- CPS is approving quality and standing by their word to not renew if the charters aren't meeting their high standards. IL should allow for unlimited charters in Chicago-- we need more options for our children! Charter-bashing is simply the way that pro-union and anti-charter people try to escape talking about how so many traditional schools are failing our students and setting them up for no future. Long live the charter school movement!
Mon May 5, 2008 at 10:22 AM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
Full court press
Sorry Catlin but your rant strikes me as a stock piece of propaganda
Written because ,as we know ,there is a bill in Springfield to increase the
Number of charter schools in Chicago.
Rather than waste my time answering you I have written my Rep. to
Condemn.SB2402.Nice try.
To all my blogger friends please aim your pens at Springfield.
Sorry Catlin but your rant strikes me as a stock piece of propaganda
Written because ,as we know ,there is a bill in Springfield to increase the
Number of charter schools in Chicago.
Rather than waste my time answering you I have written my Rep. to
Condemn.SB2402.Nice try.
To all my blogger friends please aim your pens at Springfield.
Mon May 5, 2008 at 10:29 AM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
I work at a general high school in Chicago, serving 90% or more low-income students and they are recieving an excellent education also. Out of the last four years we have had 3 Gates Millineium scholars. We do not get to pick and choose our students, in fact our school has to recieve the students the charters kick out, yet inspite of this, many students are recieving an excellent education. So find another reason for more charters. Because inspite of all the bad, rotten press our neighborhood schools contstantly get, any and all students that want a first rate education is getting one at our neighborhood schools.
Mon May 5, 2008 at 10:39 AM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
Yes, write to Springfield...in support of charters for the state of Illinois.
Charter schools are not a silver bullet, they are not a magical solution, but the current system is broken and everyone is too busy complaining about it to even begin to posit sensible solutions. Many (not all but many) charter schools are doing just that...looking for solutions.
I'm non-union, I work more hours than I ever did in CPS, but I'm happier and less stressed than I ever was working in CPS. I don't worry about losing my job because of personal politics, I worry about working hard because the size of my annual raise is decided by my annual review. I don't worry about picking up the slack of others, because those who slack off are let go. It's not for everyone, but it provides a choice, and as long as parents, teachers and community members continue to make that choice in such large numbers, charters should be allowed to grow.
The CTU might be vocal in its disdain of charter schools, but they are nothing more than the loud minority in this case. I'm sure by the end of the day this post will be filled with far more anti-charter comments, than pro-charter, because this blog seems to be read mostly by union die-hards these days (as any glimpse at a union related post will show you).
Charter schools are not a silver bullet, they are not a magical solution, but the current system is broken and everyone is too busy complaining about it to even begin to posit sensible solutions. Many (not all but many) charter schools are doing just that...looking for solutions.
I'm non-union, I work more hours than I ever did in CPS, but I'm happier and less stressed than I ever was working in CPS. I don't worry about losing my job because of personal politics, I worry about working hard because the size of my annual raise is decided by my annual review. I don't worry about picking up the slack of others, because those who slack off are let go. It's not for everyone, but it provides a choice, and as long as parents, teachers and community members continue to make that choice in such large numbers, charters should be allowed to grow.
The CTU might be vocal in its disdain of charter schools, but they are nothing more than the loud minority in this case. I'm sure by the end of the day this post will be filled with far more anti-charter comments, than pro-charter, because this blog seems to be read mostly by union die-hards these days (as any glimpse at a union related post will show you).
Mon May 5, 2008 at 10:53 AM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
Charlie,
I would contend that students have a choice every day of class. Everyday they have a choice to go to school or not, a choice to pay attention, take notes, do the homework, bring a book to class or not. So don't talk about choice because the choice is up to the student, and when they make poor choices they will not succeed, if they make good choices they will and they will get an education, be it in a charter or not. Everyone wants to blame the schools, the system, or the teachers however to be educated or not is the student's choice. And if a student chooses to get an education, they will get it.
I would contend that students have a choice every day of class. Everyday they have a choice to go to school or not, a choice to pay attention, take notes, do the homework, bring a book to class or not. So don't talk about choice because the choice is up to the student, and when they make poor choices they will not succeed, if they make good choices they will and they will get an education, be it in a charter or not. Everyone wants to blame the schools, the system, or the teachers however to be educated or not is the student's choice. And if a student chooses to get an education, they will get it.
Mon May 5, 2008 at 10:58 AM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
The difference between the charter schools and the regular neighborhood schools is that the school gets to choose the students and the parents. That is the choice that makes the difference. The "failing" neighborhood schools, and to a larger extent the "failing" system does not get to choose the students. So the charter schools keep choosing the students that want an education, the parents that want an education and of course they are succeeding, but what about the rest of the students?
Mon May 5, 2008 at 11:05 AM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
The whole notion of charters "choosing students" is something that is union people and bashers have invented- the lottery system is highly monitored and it's not about choosing students- and that notion perpetuates an idea that some students can achieve and others can't . . .
Mon May 5, 2008 at 11:07 AM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
I hear that SEIU might do a charter -- is that true? If so, would CPS teachers be eligible to teach there, or what?
Mon May 5, 2008 at 11:08 AM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
Dear Charter Charley
You are right."Don't worry be happy" All is well in charterland.
You are right."Don't worry be happy" All is well in charterland.
Mon May 5, 2008 at 11:31 AM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
Two quick why nots.
Waste of money.
Unethical experimentation with children's lives!
Thanks Lois.
CHARTERS KICK STUDENTS OUT THAT DO NOT
"CUT IT"
Here at HPA we are proud to have open enrollment and take any and all students at anytime of the year. We do not even have boundaries anymore since we are a receiving school.
It has its challenges but our students know they are welcome here and have an opportunity.
I have proof of my claims and many of my friends that work in charters tell me how it REALLY is.
One friend told she is the only one with a Special Ed certification in the whole charter high school.
So how were they servicing students before she started?
Stop the smoke and mirrors.
Give the general schools the same resources and not only will we continue to surpass in all standardized test but we will show that we can even surpass the top suburban schools.
How many Chicago charters made it into the top 100 school survey this year by USA a Today?
NONE!
Waste of money.
Unethical experimentation with children's lives!
Thanks Lois.
CHARTERS KICK STUDENTS OUT THAT DO NOT
"CUT IT"
Here at HPA we are proud to have open enrollment and take any and all students at anytime of the year. We do not even have boundaries anymore since we are a receiving school.
It has its challenges but our students know they are welcome here and have an opportunity.
I have proof of my claims and many of my friends that work in charters tell me how it REALLY is.
One friend told she is the only one with a Special Ed certification in the whole charter high school.
So how were they servicing students before she started?
Stop the smoke and mirrors.
Give the general schools the same resources and not only will we continue to surpass in all standardized test but we will show that we can even surpass the top suburban schools.
How many Chicago charters made it into the top 100 school survey this year by USA a Today?
NONE!
Mon May 5, 2008 at 11:43 AM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
Hyde Park HS is a neighborhood high school and it does, in fact, have a neighborhood high school boundary (with approx. 2,800 high school age public school students residing within it).
Mon May 5, 2008 at 12:16 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
Taken on the whole, looking at all the evidence, charter schools do not out perform non-charters when it comes to student outcomes. They simply achieve the same results for less money. As a business model and from a financial standpoint that makes charters a good option, but not, in my opinion, a sustainable one. As pay and benefits recede so will the talent and numbers in the pool of available teachers. We all know there are already enough teachers in the system who just aren't very good at what they do. There are also teacher shortages. Both of those categories will only increase as more charters arrive unless there is a major and dramatic shift in both pay and working conditions.
What drives me bonkers is comparing application-only charter schools (some of them explicitly selective enrollment) to neighborhood schools that are required to take all comers at all times. I've previously discussed with Charlie (with whom I vehemently disagree, but whose opinion and perspective I nonetheless value) the issue of active and passive selection of students/families for charters. Passive selection simply makes a difference. (And I'm trying to encourage an education PhD candidate to do just such a study.) Even with a perfect lottery, charters still select for students. Until that changes, charter vs. neighborhood school is not a valid comparison.
I'm certain there are fabulous charters out there for both students and faculty - Charlie seems to work at one. But all the other charter school teachers I know (about 25 total) are just biding their time until they find something else.
Is the percentage of outstanding charters among all charters higher than the percentage of excellent neighborhood schools among all general schools? I doubt it.
What drives me bonkers is comparing application-only charter schools (some of them explicitly selective enrollment) to neighborhood schools that are required to take all comers at all times. I've previously discussed with Charlie (with whom I vehemently disagree, but whose opinion and perspective I nonetheless value) the issue of active and passive selection of students/families for charters. Passive selection simply makes a difference. (And I'm trying to encourage an education PhD candidate to do just such a study.) Even with a perfect lottery, charters still select for students. Until that changes, charter vs. neighborhood school is not a valid comparison.
I'm certain there are fabulous charters out there for both students and faculty - Charlie seems to work at one. But all the other charter school teachers I know (about 25 total) are just biding their time until they find something else.
Is the percentage of outstanding charters among all charters higher than the percentage of excellent neighborhood schools among all general schools? I doubt it.
Mon May 5, 2008 at 12:28 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
Right now based on ISBE school report card data charter schools as a whole are doing about as well as regular CPS schools for students with disabilities. When I began looking at Ren 2010 schools about a year ago, I had assumed that charters would have dramatically fewer students with disabilities than regular CPS schools. I found that to be not true.
For example if you look at CICS schools some are above the city wide average and some are below in terms of enrollment of students with disabilities. Overall when I took a sample of 37 existing Ren 2010 schools I found that they had 2% fewer disabled students than did the CPS on average. I found they had on average about half the number of students with emotional disabilities as the average CPS school, and had a higher percentage of students who only had speech/language related disabilities. A few had individual students with Autism and cognitive disabilities, but there were almost no charters that had programs for more seriously disabled students who required separate classes.
CICS which has the most students also has the most data. Here is CICS compared to the city for students with disabilities using 2007 data:
CICS grade 3 percent reading at or above 17.7
CPS average grade 3 percent reading at or above 19
CICS grade 4 percent reading at or above 23.9
CPS average grade 4 percent reading at or above 18.1
CICS grade 5 percent reading at or above 10.9
CPS average grade 5 percent reading at or above 14.6
CICS grade 6 percent reading at or above 21.6
CPS average grade 6 percent reading at or above 17.6
CICS grade 7 percent reading at or above 12.5
CPS average grade 7 percent reading at or above 18.4
CICS grade 8 percent reading at or above 25.6
CPS average grade 8 percent reading at or above 30.5
CICS grade 11 percent reading at or above 12.5
CPS average grade 11 percent reading at or above 7.5
UNO has less data because it has smaller numbers of disabled students than CICS and some data is restricted because of ISBE confidentiality rules. But UNO actually has some what higher scores than CICS. Overall, at least at this time there is not much of a performance boost for students with disabilities attending charters as opposed to regular CPS schools.
One could say simply charters and CPS regular public schools are equally as bad in terms of academic performance for students with disabilities. Based simply on the data I have been collecting increasing the number of charters may not do much to improve out comes for students with disabilities. Increasing the number of charters could have a negative impact of the education of students with disabilities remaining in regular CPS schools due to funding issues. On the other hand there are some studies that claim that competition from charters cause regular schools to improve services for students with disabilities, there are other studies that show the opposite effect.
The Civic Federation of Chicago has done a study of several charters outside of Chicago for cost effectiveness. Their conclusion was that the cost per child was about the same as regular public schools and the charters had no negative impact on the remaining public schools in those school districts.
I will be honest and say that I am concerned that some charters in Chicago may not be able to survive a prolonged economic downturn because of possible declines in revenues going to CPS. It is my understanding that the City of Chicago will again be making budget cuts before the end of the fiscal year due to declining revenues. CPS and other school districts at some point may be forced to cut the per student rate paid to charters along with cuts to regular schools. Some charters are significantly leveraged with debt which they may have real difficulty paying it off if funds are reduced. The other issue that impacts charters and all regular CPS schools are declining numbers of students. These decling numbers result also in reduced revenue.
CPS does not in any way promise to cover any loses charters experience, they are on their own and are seperate legal entities. This may not be the best time to significantly increase the number of charters. It might be prudent to wait to see how the current economic down turn plays and demographic changes play out before increasing the number of charters or opening even new regular schools.
Rod Estvan
Access Living
For example if you look at CICS schools some are above the city wide average and some are below in terms of enrollment of students with disabilities. Overall when I took a sample of 37 existing Ren 2010 schools I found that they had 2% fewer disabled students than did the CPS on average. I found they had on average about half the number of students with emotional disabilities as the average CPS school, and had a higher percentage of students who only had speech/language related disabilities. A few had individual students with Autism and cognitive disabilities, but there were almost no charters that had programs for more seriously disabled students who required separate classes.
CICS which has the most students also has the most data. Here is CICS compared to the city for students with disabilities using 2007 data:
CICS grade 3 percent reading at or above 17.7
CPS average grade 3 percent reading at or above 19
CICS grade 4 percent reading at or above 23.9
CPS average grade 4 percent reading at or above 18.1
CICS grade 5 percent reading at or above 10.9
CPS average grade 5 percent reading at or above 14.6
CICS grade 6 percent reading at or above 21.6
CPS average grade 6 percent reading at or above 17.6
CICS grade 7 percent reading at or above 12.5
CPS average grade 7 percent reading at or above 18.4
CICS grade 8 percent reading at or above 25.6
CPS average grade 8 percent reading at or above 30.5
CICS grade 11 percent reading at or above 12.5
CPS average grade 11 percent reading at or above 7.5
UNO has less data because it has smaller numbers of disabled students than CICS and some data is restricted because of ISBE confidentiality rules. But UNO actually has some what higher scores than CICS. Overall, at least at this time there is not much of a performance boost for students with disabilities attending charters as opposed to regular CPS schools.
One could say simply charters and CPS regular public schools are equally as bad in terms of academic performance for students with disabilities. Based simply on the data I have been collecting increasing the number of charters may not do much to improve out comes for students with disabilities. Increasing the number of charters could have a negative impact of the education of students with disabilities remaining in regular CPS schools due to funding issues. On the other hand there are some studies that claim that competition from charters cause regular schools to improve services for students with disabilities, there are other studies that show the opposite effect.
The Civic Federation of Chicago has done a study of several charters outside of Chicago for cost effectiveness. Their conclusion was that the cost per child was about the same as regular public schools and the charters had no negative impact on the remaining public schools in those school districts.
I will be honest and say that I am concerned that some charters in Chicago may not be able to survive a prolonged economic downturn because of possible declines in revenues going to CPS. It is my understanding that the City of Chicago will again be making budget cuts before the end of the fiscal year due to declining revenues. CPS and other school districts at some point may be forced to cut the per student rate paid to charters along with cuts to regular schools. Some charters are significantly leveraged with debt which they may have real difficulty paying it off if funds are reduced. The other issue that impacts charters and all regular CPS schools are declining numbers of students. These decling numbers result also in reduced revenue.
CPS does not in any way promise to cover any loses charters experience, they are on their own and are seperate legal entities. This may not be the best time to significantly increase the number of charters. It might be prudent to wait to see how the current economic down turn plays and demographic changes play out before increasing the number of charters or opening even new regular schools.
Rod Estvan
Access Living
Mon May 5, 2008 at 12:53 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
Until CPS can guarantee a safe environment for every student, I do support the expansion of charters in order to give the parents who care a better chance of getting their children away from the violence. I've read, on this blog and other places, about near riots at Washington HS and other general high schools as well. I've heard about gang violence and just plain mean kids preying on other kids. Until CPS figures out a way to remove the vicious bullies from the general high schools, I think it's fair to provide Charter schools.
Even if their is a passive selection bias, so what? Shouldn't parents who care get a better option for their children than the parents who apparently don't care?
Even if their is a passive selection bias, so what? Shouldn't parents who care get a better option for their children than the parents who apparently don't care?
Mon May 5, 2008 at 12:57 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
that must be new information. The last time I checked with our attendance coordinator about our official boundaries she saiid we had none. That we were taking students from all over the city.
Maybe that is what it says officially but here on the ground it is something different. And as i stated earlier we understand our status a an open enrollment school and to tell the truth it is kind of a status that we can and will try to help all the students that want to come to Hyde Park.
I do go off on occasions and get frustrated but I am more often than not proud of to work with the other staff here at Hyde Park. We work with what we got an in many instances achieve success.
Like the other day. It took me three years to get the students and program it is today. Now it operates by student power, even the instructors are recent graduates.
see next post
Maybe that is what it says officially but here on the ground it is something different. And as i stated earlier we understand our status a an open enrollment school and to tell the truth it is kind of a status that we can and will try to help all the students that want to come to Hyde Park.
I do go off on occasions and get frustrated but I am more often than not proud of to work with the other staff here at Hyde Park. We work with what we got an in many instances achieve success.
Like the other day. It took me three years to get the students and program it is today. Now it operates by student power, even the instructors are recent graduates.
see next post
Mon May 5, 2008 at 1:02 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
Hyde Park Wins Computer Competition
Hyde Park Tech Corps was the First Place winner of the 2nd Annual International Computer Expo Competition May 2, 2008, held at Morton East High School in Cicero, IL. Morton High School and Phillips High School were the two schools
that were included in the competition. Two foreign exchange students from Durango, Mexico worked along side
Hyde Park students with translators, but working together became natural. The competition was all about working
together as teams of eight to fix and assemble six computers in an hour. DeVry University was a cosponsor of the event.
The Expo is part of the on going partnership with Youth Technology Corps that helps send students to Mexico to work
on service projects including computer donations, film projects and global eco-data collection.
Hyde Park Computer Refurbishment - AfterSchoolMatters
Durango Visitors 042908
Mexico 2007 Trip
International Projects
Please bring in your old equipment to be recycled or contact Dr. Kugler
Hyde Park Tech Corps was the First Place winner of the 2nd Annual International Computer Expo Competition May 2, 2008, held at Morton East High School in Cicero, IL. Morton High School and Phillips High School were the two schools
that were included in the competition. Two foreign exchange students from Durango, Mexico worked along side
Hyde Park students with translators, but working together became natural. The competition was all about working
together as teams of eight to fix and assemble six computers in an hour. DeVry University was a cosponsor of the event.
The Expo is part of the on going partnership with Youth Technology Corps that helps send students to Mexico to work
on service projects including computer donations, film projects and global eco-data collection.
Hyde Park Computer Refurbishment - AfterSchoolMatters
Durango Visitors 042908
Mexico 2007 Trip
International Projects
Please bring in your old equipment to be recycled or contact Dr. Kugler
Mon May 5, 2008 at 1:11 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
safe
How do we know if charter schools are safe or not?
Just because we do not hear about violence does that
mean none exists.?Every High School In Ill.has it's share of fights.
PS. No more from me.On to my state Rep's
How do we know if charter schools are safe or not?
Just because we do not hear about violence does that
mean none exists.?Every High School In Ill.has it's share of fights.
PS. No more from me.On to my state Rep's
Mon May 5, 2008 at 2:07 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
Why don't we just make all schools charters!!!!!! Since they are doing such a bang up job and the rest of the system is doing such a rotten job!!!! Then of course all the teachers would be working not for the money (I am sure there are many potential teachers that will work for the love of teaching) all parents would be parents that care and all students would be performing at or above grade level because they would be at one of the wonderful charter schools. All teachers would have to negociate they're own salary and benefits, and then we could eliminate not only the CTU but the Board of Ed also. So let's all contact our legislators and propose elimination of all public schools and go to all charter schools!!!
Tough luck for the students with parents that don't care, they really don't deserve a safe environment anyway.
Tough luck for the students with parents that don't care, they really don't deserve a safe environment anyway.
Mon May 5, 2008 at 2:27 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
Hi, Your email address link isn't working (the address is reported as not available).
Mon May 5, 2008 at 2:33 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
Kugler said: "that must be new information. The last time I checked with our attendance coordinator about our official boundaries she saiid we had none. That we were taking students from all over the city."
Having a traditional neighborhood high school boundary and enrolling students from all over the city are by no means mutually exclusive; Hyde Park HS being a case in point, though there are many others.
There's nothing new about the fact that Hyde Park HS has a boundary. The only thing that's new is that Hyde Park's boundaries were expanded (slightly) to include portions of Calumet and Englewood when those high schools' boundaries were reassigned.
Having a traditional neighborhood high school boundary and enrolling students from all over the city are by no means mutually exclusive; Hyde Park HS being a case in point, though there are many others.
There's nothing new about the fact that Hyde Park HS has a boundary. The only thing that's new is that Hyde Park's boundaries were expanded (slightly) to include portions of Calumet and Englewood when those high schools' boundaries were reassigned.
Mon May 5, 2008 at 3:25 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
George, here is your chance! More Charters For CPS-- Why Not?
Mon May 5, 2008 at 3:39 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
cermak_rd: Shouldn't parents who care get a better option for their children than the parents who apparently don't care?
Yes - parents who care may enroll their children in any number of current private schools, Catholic schools, magnet schools, current charters or general schools outside of the neighborhood.
No - the mission of the state should be to provide all children the best possible education.
My opposition to charters rests on these, and other, factors:
a) Lower wages for teachers.
b) Fewer benefits for teachers.
c) Non-union staff.
d) The comparison of charters to non-comparable regular schools.
e) The importance of providing every child with the best possible education, not just those with "good" parents.
f) Complete lack of evidence that charters as a whole are better than non-charters.
So, can we help students with parents who care, students of mediocre achievement, and our best and brightest by abandoning a certain percentage at the bottom of the pile? Magnet schools and charters have already tilted the scale in this direction. But is that, and should it be, the mission of state funded education? What will provide for the greatest common good among the children of Chicago? And is that even the right goal?
Also, for the charter supporters out there - what is happening in charters that can't happen in regular schools?
Yes - parents who care may enroll their children in any number of current private schools, Catholic schools, magnet schools, current charters or general schools outside of the neighborhood.
No - the mission of the state should be to provide all children the best possible education.
My opposition to charters rests on these, and other, factors:
a) Lower wages for teachers.
b) Fewer benefits for teachers.
c) Non-union staff.
d) The comparison of charters to non-comparable regular schools.
e) The importance of providing every child with the best possible education, not just those with "good" parents.
f) Complete lack of evidence that charters as a whole are better than non-charters.
So, can we help students with parents who care, students of mediocre achievement, and our best and brightest by abandoning a certain percentage at the bottom of the pile? Magnet schools and charters have already tilted the scale in this direction. But is that, and should it be, the mission of state funded education? What will provide for the greatest common good among the children of Chicago? And is that even the right goal?
Also, for the charter supporters out there - what is happening in charters that can't happen in regular schools?
Mon May 5, 2008 at 4:51 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
As a special education teacher in CPS, I have 2 students this year who were told not to come back to their charter (one was cics). The charters have the choice of having cps provide special ed teachers or they hire their own. I wonder if anyone actually audits the minutes of the kids being served. From teachers I know, many special ed kids are not being properly serviced because there are not enough teachers at their school. Administrators try to get around special ed law.
Although charters may provide some options, my experience is that they are not the be all or end all. The money should be spent to reduce class size in cps. If all cps classrooms had the resources that most of the charters had, things would be much better.
Although charters may provide some options, my experience is that they are not the be all or end all. The money should be spent to reduce class size in cps. If all cps classrooms had the resources that most of the charters had, things would be much better.
Mon May 5, 2008 at 5:05 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
I have a case currently where a charter is verbally telling a family that they can not continue to serve their child, because of the service minutes the student needs. The family may file due process or they may accept the decision, or is it a "recommendation" on the part of the charter.
Clearly so called "counseling out" happens, but even with that the overall performance of charters for students with disabilities is about the same as CPS regular schools. Most of the counseling out is for students with behavior issues that have disabilities, but there are other issues too. Some charters also have a practice called re-enrollment, where they send letters out to these problem students telling the families they are not re-enrolled for the next school year and to report to their local CPS school.
Even, with the counseling out, the numbers of students with disabilities attending charters is growing.
Rod Estvan
Access Living
Clearly so called "counseling out" happens, but even with that the overall performance of charters for students with disabilities is about the same as CPS regular schools. Most of the counseling out is for students with behavior issues that have disabilities, but there are other issues too. Some charters also have a practice called re-enrollment, where they send letters out to these problem students telling the families they are not re-enrolled for the next school year and to report to their local CPS school.
Even, with the counseling out, the numbers of students with disabilities attending charters is growing.
Rod Estvan
Access Living
Mon May 5, 2008 at 5:09 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
Hi Rodentface...
Points a and b on your list are gross generalizations (aka lies) told by unions time and time again to keep union members away from charter schools.
If you look at an hourly salary at a charter school, yes for the most part CPS teachers are probably payed more, but I know where I work we always monitor CPS' payscale to ensure that our teachers are paid the same or in a few cases more. If there were a way to measure units of stress and frustration per dollar made, I'm coming out way better here than I ever was in CPS, even if it means working longer hours.
As for point b, I think I pay slightly more out of pocket for my insurance, but I have vision, health, dental and life and it's not as if my quality of care has decreased since working for CPS.
One other fact that people are often mislead about: if you work in a charter and are fully-certified, you are still part of the pension fund, regardless of whether you are a union member.
What is happening in charters that can't happen in regular schools?
Single sex education options for parents. Whether you agree with it or not, many families value the option and most can't afford or necessarily want a Catholic school education.
Healthy Food. Check out schools like Namaste and Perspectives who are working to prove that good food (not warmed in a microwave and covered in cellophane) is sustainable and good for schools.
Firing bad teachers.
Without the bureaucracy of CPS to deal with or a principal worrying about the bureaucracy of CPS, charters are free to make decisions around spending and hiring in a much timelier fashion than your typical CPS school, which frees them out to seek and invest in innovations as they are happening.
I understand your apprehension with comparing CPS neighborhood schools to charters, but the demographics of charter schools are far more similar to neighborhood schools than to selective enrollment schools. Even Rod posted earlier admitting that the % of students with special needs is quite similar. As the number of students in charter schools grows, these numbers are becoming more and more similar. And as charter schools become a more pervasive part of Chicago Public Schools culture the effects of even passive selection diminishes as a one - two page application becomes a common expectation.
I work for a charter school and I am deeply in favor of them. I understand they have their flaws, but I do believe the average charter school is better for the average student than the average CPS school. That is coming from someone who has taught in two traditional public schools and two charter schools.
Points a and b on your list are gross generalizations (aka lies) told by unions time and time again to keep union members away from charter schools.
If you look at an hourly salary at a charter school, yes for the most part CPS teachers are probably payed more, but I know where I work we always monitor CPS' payscale to ensure that our teachers are paid the same or in a few cases more. If there were a way to measure units of stress and frustration per dollar made, I'm coming out way better here than I ever was in CPS, even if it means working longer hours.
As for point b, I think I pay slightly more out of pocket for my insurance, but I have vision, health, dental and life and it's not as if my quality of care has decreased since working for CPS.
One other fact that people are often mislead about: if you work in a charter and are fully-certified, you are still part of the pension fund, regardless of whether you are a union member.
What is happening in charters that can't happen in regular schools?
Single sex education options for parents. Whether you agree with it or not, many families value the option and most can't afford or necessarily want a Catholic school education.
Healthy Food. Check out schools like Namaste and Perspectives who are working to prove that good food (not warmed in a microwave and covered in cellophane) is sustainable and good for schools.
Firing bad teachers.
Without the bureaucracy of CPS to deal with or a principal worrying about the bureaucracy of CPS, charters are free to make decisions around spending and hiring in a much timelier fashion than your typical CPS school, which frees them out to seek and invest in innovations as they are happening.
I understand your apprehension with comparing CPS neighborhood schools to charters, but the demographics of charter schools are far more similar to neighborhood schools than to selective enrollment schools. Even Rod posted earlier admitting that the % of students with special needs is quite similar. As the number of students in charter schools grows, these numbers are becoming more and more similar. And as charter schools become a more pervasive part of Chicago Public Schools culture the effects of even passive selection diminishes as a one - two page application becomes a common expectation.
I work for a charter school and I am deeply in favor of them. I understand they have their flaws, but I do believe the average charter school is better for the average student than the average CPS school. That is coming from someone who has taught in two traditional public schools and two charter schools.
Mon May 5, 2008 at 6:08 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
Charlie,
It sounds like it is the CPS bureaucracy that prevents neighborhood schools from being as "great" as charter schools. Not the union. Why does the law not let the charter school teachers be part of the CTU? Because then the charters would have to pay union wages. Yes your teachers would have to be paid to work from 8 to 4 and would have to be paid to work extra during the summer. Yes teachers are part of the pension but who pays into the pensions, does this come out of the teachers pocket or the charter school's pocket? Again and again I say, a two page application is a selective enrollment and why is there an application process because these schools can pick and choose who goes there and when they choose poorly, they can kick the kids out. So charters may be wonderful places to work but they are not educating all students and they are not providing all students equally, and yes they are educating more cheaply then the general neighborhood schools.
By the way are charter school staff salaries published like other public school teachers? Just curious
It sounds like it is the CPS bureaucracy that prevents neighborhood schools from being as "great" as charter schools. Not the union. Why does the law not let the charter school teachers be part of the CTU? Because then the charters would have to pay union wages. Yes your teachers would have to be paid to work from 8 to 4 and would have to be paid to work extra during the summer. Yes teachers are part of the pension but who pays into the pensions, does this come out of the teachers pocket or the charter school's pocket? Again and again I say, a two page application is a selective enrollment and why is there an application process because these schools can pick and choose who goes there and when they choose poorly, they can kick the kids out. So charters may be wonderful places to work but they are not educating all students and they are not providing all students equally, and yes they are educating more cheaply then the general neighborhood schools.
By the way are charter school staff salaries published like other public school teachers? Just curious
Mon May 5, 2008 at 7:01 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
Hi Charlie,
For now, I'll stand by the accuracy of points a) lower wages and b) fewer benefits I made above. I don't have hard data handy, though I've seen it in the past - I'll try to scrounge it up. In the mean time, I personally know very few, if any, charter teachers who are compensated as well as Union teachers. Yes, working conditions are important, but I don't see any reason why traditional schools and charters should be any different in this regard. What does your charter school do that so significantly lowers your stress and frustration? And is it anything that cannot be done in a traditional school? I hope others will chime in - I don't intend to overwhelm you with questions.
I am glad to hear that fully certified charter teachers are part of the pension fund. I didn't know that, though I never believed the contrary, either.
Re: single sex education options - I agree having the option is a good thing. Perhaps I'm showing my naivite, but what exactly prevents traditional schools from exploring this option?
Healthy Food? C'mon - are you serious? That's fabulous. Seriously. I wouldn't touch the food at my school with a 10 foot pole. And most of the kids won't either. But there's no reason neighborhood schools can't serve healthy food. Or is there?
CPS inability to fire bad teachers is a myth and tenure does not protect bad teachers. It merely provides a process, mutually agreed upon by employee and employer, by which a teacher may be removed. It's a simple process. It's all spelled out in the current contract book in Article 39-5 and in 105 ILCS 5/24A-5. Besides, it really doesn't seem like CPS is having any trouble firing Union teachers right now. And PATs can be fired easily, though they will now receive tenure on the 4th anniversary of their appointment rather than the 5th anniversary.
Sure, CPS bureaucracy sucks. But if CPS is so fond of charter schools, and one of the reasons charters can be effective is the lack of bureaucracy, it would be simple for CPS to eliminate the bureaucracy that handicaps traditional schools. Beyond the myth of tenure, shouldn't anything happening in a charter be doable in a general school? And if not, why not?
Obviously, your charter school is doing some things right. Plenty of neighborhood schools are, too. Both types of schools have their flaws and as you've mentioned before, there is much to learn from both sides about what works and what doesn't. Improving schools is, after all, the ultimate goal. And one final question - what happens to the students whose parents don't value education and therefore don't apply or enroll their child in a private, Catholic, charter, magnet or selective neighorhood school?
P.S. One of these days I'd like to visit your charter and invite you to my neighborhood school.
For now, I'll stand by the accuracy of points a) lower wages and b) fewer benefits I made above. I don't have hard data handy, though I've seen it in the past - I'll try to scrounge it up. In the mean time, I personally know very few, if any, charter teachers who are compensated as well as Union teachers. Yes, working conditions are important, but I don't see any reason why traditional schools and charters should be any different in this regard. What does your charter school do that so significantly lowers your stress and frustration? And is it anything that cannot be done in a traditional school? I hope others will chime in - I don't intend to overwhelm you with questions.
I am glad to hear that fully certified charter teachers are part of the pension fund. I didn't know that, though I never believed the contrary, either.
Re: single sex education options - I agree having the option is a good thing. Perhaps I'm showing my naivite, but what exactly prevents traditional schools from exploring this option?
Healthy Food? C'mon - are you serious? That's fabulous. Seriously. I wouldn't touch the food at my school with a 10 foot pole. And most of the kids won't either. But there's no reason neighborhood schools can't serve healthy food. Or is there?
CPS inability to fire bad teachers is a myth and tenure does not protect bad teachers. It merely provides a process, mutually agreed upon by employee and employer, by which a teacher may be removed. It's a simple process. It's all spelled out in the current contract book in Article 39-5 and in 105 ILCS 5/24A-5. Besides, it really doesn't seem like CPS is having any trouble firing Union teachers right now. And PATs can be fired easily, though they will now receive tenure on the 4th anniversary of their appointment rather than the 5th anniversary.
Sure, CPS bureaucracy sucks. But if CPS is so fond of charter schools, and one of the reasons charters can be effective is the lack of bureaucracy, it would be simple for CPS to eliminate the bureaucracy that handicaps traditional schools. Beyond the myth of tenure, shouldn't anything happening in a charter be doable in a general school? And if not, why not?
Obviously, your charter school is doing some things right. Plenty of neighborhood schools are, too. Both types of schools have their flaws and as you've mentioned before, there is much to learn from both sides about what works and what doesn't. Improving schools is, after all, the ultimate goal. And one final question - what happens to the students whose parents don't value education and therefore don't apply or enroll their child in a private, Catholic, charter, magnet or selective neighorhood school?
P.S. One of these days I'd like to visit your charter and invite you to my neighborhood school.
Mon May 5, 2008 at 7:37 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
I have had several friends who have been offered jobs at charter schools at salary rates below what they would get in a regular cps school. In fact, in at least three instances, they weren't even told what the salary would be when the job was offered. They were simply advised that their current salary would not be matched. All three were fully certified and have advanced degrees.
Mon May 5, 2008 at 7:59 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
Trust me, it's in the stars, Caitlin...
Thanks for sharing your vast expertise, tempered by your former career as a serial intern. Your experience qualifies you to compare one charter school to another, not charters to general public schools.
Read the stats posted above, understanding that CPS has studiously been avoiding them and hiding them, even as they claim they are only trying to break down old codgers who refuse to engage in 'data-driven decision making'.
Oh, and your school kicks out girls for getting pregnant.
Not interested in hearing your weepy rebuttal on what meanies the people who post to this blog are.
We get paid to advocate for children; this does not, however include immature adults.
I object to people leeching off the public dime while
- they 'find' themselves,
- snag a 'real' job,
- try to get a thin veneer of education 'chops' for a future run for public office (can't fool Chicagoans, we already got a tour of the Jack Ryan sewer) or
- get enough superficial grist to write an 'expose' on our awful school system. (streets here already littered with the bodies of Trib reporters who couldn't tough it out, or became converts to the fight of advocating for education for ALL children, not just the ones whose parents behave as you want them to.)
Feel free to post again when you grow a conscience.
Is there a special reason you didn't mention you're TFA?
Just asking.
Thanks for sharing your vast expertise, tempered by your former career as a serial intern. Your experience qualifies you to compare one charter school to another, not charters to general public schools.
Read the stats posted above, understanding that CPS has studiously been avoiding them and hiding them, even as they claim they are only trying to break down old codgers who refuse to engage in 'data-driven decision making'.
Oh, and your school kicks out girls for getting pregnant.
Not interested in hearing your weepy rebuttal on what meanies the people who post to this blog are.
We get paid to advocate for children; this does not, however include immature adults.
I object to people leeching off the public dime while
- they 'find' themselves,
- snag a 'real' job,
- try to get a thin veneer of education 'chops' for a future run for public office (can't fool Chicagoans, we already got a tour of the Jack Ryan sewer) or
- get enough superficial grist to write an 'expose' on our awful school system. (streets here already littered with the bodies of Trib reporters who couldn't tough it out, or became converts to the fight of advocating for education for ALL children, not just the ones whose parents behave as you want them to.)
Feel free to post again when you grow a conscience.
Is there a special reason you didn't mention you're TFA?
Just asking.
Mon May 5, 2008 at 10:09 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
I run a charter school. We have 11% of our kids with IEPs and several students that go in and out of Hartgrove weeks at a time. Our population of kids is identical to neighborhood schools. We work hard to prepare our kids for college. We also were one of only 11 schools city-wide with 100% of our kids at or above grade level on the 8th grade ISAT. Our eighth graders beat 75% of the magnets on ISAT composite. Charter schools work.
Mon May 5, 2008 at 10:11 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
The charter school I work at pays 20% more than CPS and matches all the benefits. The best benefit of all is that I'm working next to people that are working as hard as me and we are transforming kids' lives.
Tue May 6, 2008 at 2:49 AM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
This thread is a fun read from Arneland and charter central. Except for "Charlie," everyone repeating the charter talking points (straight out of New and Charter Schools at CPS) is (a) anonymous and (b) talking about some anonymous "charter school" that's ever so good.
It would be easier to have some discussion here if somebody would talk about a real charter school in real time in Chicago. "Charter Leader" -- where's your "school"? What's its name?
"Caitlin" -- where are you? Do you live in Chicago or the suburbs? Registered to vote somewhere?
Most of the main talking points being shared back and forth (anonymously) here at the same kind of nonsense people regularly share at these privatization conference that Chicago's Renaissance Schools Fund and "New (and charter" Schools" spends so much money on.
So here is a question:
How much money is Ignacio Solis's firm getting for "security" at several charter schools in Chicago today. We'll start with that one while you continue this Disney version of Chicago reality.
It would be easier to have some discussion here if somebody would talk about a real charter school in real time in Chicago. "Charter Leader" -- where's your "school"? What's its name?
"Caitlin" -- where are you? Do you live in Chicago or the suburbs? Registered to vote somewhere?
Most of the main talking points being shared back and forth (anonymously) here at the same kind of nonsense people regularly share at these privatization conference that Chicago's Renaissance Schools Fund and "New (and charter" Schools" spends so much money on.
So here is a question:
How much money is Ignacio Solis's firm getting for "security" at several charter schools in Chicago today. We'll start with that one while you continue this Disney version of Chicago reality.
Tue May 6, 2008 at 7:32 AM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
Democracy is why not. Consumerism cannot replace citizenship.
Charters have no LSCs.
Students are kicked out and underserved without due process.
Teachers are fired with no due process.
Until charter teachers unionize, they have no voice and no vote
in their pay or working conditions.
Unelected charter "boards" are not operating open meetings and records are not made available to the public.
The rights of freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and equality are violated with impunity.
Charters are the HMOs of education. Citizens should not be forced to shop for something that is a basic human right.
Charters do not deserve our tax dollars so long as they operate like private businesses.
Fund public schools. That is the real issue. No corporate smoke and mirrors. Fund decent public schools.
Charters have no LSCs.
Students are kicked out and underserved without due process.
Teachers are fired with no due process.
Until charter teachers unionize, they have no voice and no vote
in their pay or working conditions.
Unelected charter "boards" are not operating open meetings and records are not made available to the public.
The rights of freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and equality are violated with impunity.
Charters are the HMOs of education. Citizens should not be forced to shop for something that is a basic human right.
Charters do not deserve our tax dollars so long as they operate like private businesses.
Fund public schools. That is the real issue. No corporate smoke and mirrors. Fund decent public schools.
Tue May 6, 2008 at 8:42 AM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
In Monday's Chicago Sun-Times on page 29 in the editorial article entitled "State should pass bill, lift charter school cap" they write, "Parents flock to charter schools because they tend to be smaller, more innovative and- MOST IMPORTANTLY- their students usually do better than kids at comparable neighborhood schools." Here are the PSAE % Meets/Exceeds scores for students in the charter high schools in CPS: North Lawndale Charter HS, 2004-15%, 2005-16%, 2006-18%; Acad Of Comm & Tech Charter HS, 2004-10%, 2005-10%, 2006-13%; Noble Street Charter HS, 2004-40%, 2005-45%, 2006-42%; Perspectives Charter HS, 2004-22%, 2005-18%, 2006-21%; Young Womens Leadership Charter HS, 2004-13%, 2005-17%, 2006-15%; Aspira Charter HS, 2006-32%.
Tue May 6, 2008 at 10:30 AM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
The Sun-Times editorial board never lets the facts get in the way of anything. They simply take the "editorial board briefing" and Power Point nonsense served up by Arne Duncan's staff and recycle them into prose propaganda. They are all enamored on Arne, and the less they know of the facts, the better they like it.
As to those "high school" numbers above, considering that they are produced after outfits like Noble St. send their "bad" kids back to Wells (or simply dump them) and Aspira couldn't survive any audit of any of its activities, those numbers are the best any of them can possible do.
"Perspectives Calumet" will be added to the Perspectives mix this year, at least for some grades. Wait and see what happens to the already low ACT and PSAE scores from Perspectives when the full impact of that scam lands in their numbers. The only way they can continue to claim that they are superior is to hide behind "waiting list" nonsense and make sure nobody gets a close look at all their data and how the data are massaged.
Of course, someone should also count "Youth Connections" in the charter school mix. But the sad fact is that "Youth Connections" is actually only Number One in one thing: dead kids.
The day Chicago finally kicks the charter school Kool Aid we'll be able to talk about confronting the real problems with the urban public schools that serve the children who've been screwed the most by this city and its economic and social systems. It took a Big Lie worthy of the nastiest propagandists in history to make CPS the scapegoat for all of the other sins of Richard M. Daley and the class he serves, but fact is, it was done. Digging out of that hole in people's souls (lies burn deep into people souls when they believe them intensely and with such religious fervor as these zealots) will take at least a generation. It has to begin with people who simply say "No" to every form of privatization.
As to those "high school" numbers above, considering that they are produced after outfits like Noble St. send their "bad" kids back to Wells (or simply dump them) and Aspira couldn't survive any audit of any of its activities, those numbers are the best any of them can possible do.
"Perspectives Calumet" will be added to the Perspectives mix this year, at least for some grades. Wait and see what happens to the already low ACT and PSAE scores from Perspectives when the full impact of that scam lands in their numbers. The only way they can continue to claim that they are superior is to hide behind "waiting list" nonsense and make sure nobody gets a close look at all their data and how the data are massaged.
Of course, someone should also count "Youth Connections" in the charter school mix. But the sad fact is that "Youth Connections" is actually only Number One in one thing: dead kids.
The day Chicago finally kicks the charter school Kool Aid we'll be able to talk about confronting the real problems with the urban public schools that serve the children who've been screwed the most by this city and its economic and social systems. It took a Big Lie worthy of the nastiest propagandists in history to make CPS the scapegoat for all of the other sins of Richard M. Daley and the class he serves, but fact is, it was done. Digging out of that hole in people's souls (lies burn deep into people souls when they believe them intensely and with such religious fervor as these zealots) will take at least a generation. It has to begin with people who simply say "No" to every form of privatization.
Tue May 6, 2008 at 10:40 AM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
PART 2- Here are the 2007 PSAE % Meets/Exceeds scores for students in charter high schools in CPS: ACE Charter HS, 16.7%; ACT Charter HS, 8%; Aspira Charter HS, 24.5%; Chgo International Charter-Longwood, 18.1%; Chgo International Charter-Northtown, 42%, Noble Street Charter HS, 41.8%; North Lawndale Charter HS, 23.4%; Perspective Charter HS, 12.6%; Young Women Leadership Charter HS, 17% and Youth Connection Charter-AL, 10.5%.
Tue May 6, 2008 at 10:45 AM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
Hi democracy,
Charter schools were started as a tool to allow smart educational folks start schools that might to innovative stuff to help kids. Many of the best charter schools in Chicago were started by either former CPS teachers or non-profits.
Want to talk about corporate smoke and mirrors? Look at CPS. Nothing but corporate smoke and mirrors going on there. Some charter schools are truly just mini-versions of CPS, and a few are run with strong ties to the corporate world (Aon has a school, that one law firm has a school, CICS is run by a bunch of corporate guys). Now look at the people who are making the major decisions in CPS. Nothing but corporate types given power through personal politics.
Charter schools are no more privatized than the entire system already is. They just take less of your tax dollars than the average neighborhood school (there's a reason they have so much fundraising to do...they're not building an endowment fund, they're just barely breaking even after operational expenses).
What's more democratic than someone with a good idea being able to start a school that gives urban kids a choice in their education? Or maybe you'd like to stand in line to receive your government bread to go home and watch your state sponsored news (George would argue that this is already happening).
Retired Principal,
Take those schools, whose PSAE scores you listed and look at their college retention numbers on the latest CPS score card. Then tell me what is more important, preparing kids to take a test? or preparing kids to succeed in college?
Things (even as a charter supporter) I would like to see happen:
1. hold charter schools more accountable in all senses of the word and shut down schools that are not meeting their performance targets
2. parents of students who have been unfairly coerced into leaving a charter school (whether it be for academics, behavior or pregnancy), band together and take a stand to stop charters from doing this. I speak out against it in my school things even come close. Although the few explusions I've seen have been fair to the students and the parents.
3. someone needs to find a way to publish a comparison of salaries and benefits in charter schools compared to CPS. so once and for all we can see the differences. And it can't be a union sponsored study or a charter advocacy group (although perhaps a joint study, with parties from both sides of the fence).
4. someone explain to the thousands of parents on charter school waiting lists why you don't think they should have more schools to attend.
Charter schools were started as a tool to allow smart educational folks start schools that might to innovative stuff to help kids. Many of the best charter schools in Chicago were started by either former CPS teachers or non-profits.
Want to talk about corporate smoke and mirrors? Look at CPS. Nothing but corporate smoke and mirrors going on there. Some charter schools are truly just mini-versions of CPS, and a few are run with strong ties to the corporate world (Aon has a school, that one law firm has a school, CICS is run by a bunch of corporate guys). Now look at the people who are making the major decisions in CPS. Nothing but corporate types given power through personal politics.
Charter schools are no more privatized than the entire system already is. They just take less of your tax dollars than the average neighborhood school (there's a reason they have so much fundraising to do...they're not building an endowment fund, they're just barely breaking even after operational expenses).
What's more democratic than someone with a good idea being able to start a school that gives urban kids a choice in their education? Or maybe you'd like to stand in line to receive your government bread to go home and watch your state sponsored news (George would argue that this is already happening).
Retired Principal,
Take those schools, whose PSAE scores you listed and look at their college retention numbers on the latest CPS score card. Then tell me what is more important, preparing kids to take a test? or preparing kids to succeed in college?
Things (even as a charter supporter) I would like to see happen:
1. hold charter schools more accountable in all senses of the word and shut down schools that are not meeting their performance targets
2. parents of students who have been unfairly coerced into leaving a charter school (whether it be for academics, behavior or pregnancy), band together and take a stand to stop charters from doing this. I speak out against it in my school things even come close. Although the few explusions I've seen have been fair to the students and the parents.
3. someone needs to find a way to publish a comparison of salaries and benefits in charter schools compared to CPS. so once and for all we can see the differences. And it can't be a union sponsored study or a charter advocacy group (although perhaps a joint study, with parties from both sides of the fence).
4. someone explain to the thousands of parents on charter school waiting lists why you don't think they should have more schools to attend.
Tue May 6, 2008 at 10:45 AM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
Sun Times
Dear retired Principal
Good job. I hope the Sun Times editorial board realizes that ,like the CTU, they have lost a tremendous amount of influence
over the last few years. More than one Chicago Public School Librarian has discussed the wisdom of buying a newspaper
that has become in reality a local paper. Some schools I know of are seriously discussing dumping the Times entirely in favor
of A Tribune, Defender combination, or just buying the Defender to start and relying on the Drudge Report for national
and international news. Look at the drudge report today and in three days the Times will run the same stories.
Dear retired Principal
Good job. I hope the Sun Times editorial board realizes that ,like the CTU, they have lost a tremendous amount of influence
over the last few years. More than one Chicago Public School Librarian has discussed the wisdom of buying a newspaper
that has become in reality a local paper. Some schools I know of are seriously discussing dumping the Times entirely in favor
of A Tribune, Defender combination, or just buying the Defender to start and relying on the Drudge Report for national
and international news. Look at the drudge report today and in three days the Times will run the same stories.
Tue May 6, 2008 at 1:11 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
Those are interesting stats. What's the name of the school, and I'll check it out and maybe put my children's names on the waitlist?
Tue May 6, 2008 at 5:09 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
More Charter Schools; Less Office of New Schools (ONS). ONS is the worst thing to happen to autonomy and charter schools. Time to end it. Say no to ONS. Greg Richmond, we miss you!!!
Tue May 6, 2008 at 5:57 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
Do not believe the hype your are hearing about charter schools;They are dealing with the same type of students as regular public schools but are some how managing to hyde under psuedo stats that imply they are doing a better job. Most Teachers working in charters do not have cerificates or are seeking alternative certification. Would you let some one operate on you who does not have the appropriate medical certification? Classes are not smaller by any means and they are totally inept when having to establish curriculum for special needs students. I resent the fact that some of them promise that all of their enrolled students will have an opportunity to go to college. No one can garantee that. Some Parents buy into the hype because they do not want to face serious reality regarding their own negligence in establishing a conducive environment for their children to learn. Also, the concept that those teachers who work in charter schools work longer hours and are better teachers than regular public school teachers is a complete farce. Charter school teachers work longer hours because now they have no union to protect and fight for them and charter schools have become big corporate business with children becoming products on an assembly line rather than individual human beings.
Tue May 6, 2008 at 6:40 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
Mayor Daley began Renaissance 2010 over three years ago to create 100 new schools (now 150 new schools) by 2010, replacing low-performing schools (i.e. general elementary and general high schools) with new educational options (charter schools) in underserved communities (south and west side of Chicago) and relieving school overcrowding in communities (southwest side of Chicago?) experiencing rapid growth!!!
Tue May 6, 2008 at 6:42 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
Dear Retired Principal:
Would you please check for the Chicago Academy(officially CPS Performance unofficially contract school).During my battle against closure of Orr I was able to pull different numbers from different sources(INSIDE the CPS!).AUSL advertised in the Union Teachers thanks to the intelligence of the combination of MS and JO) is the operating body.
Today I was told about 5 year contracts with their new staff.How about our Agreement?Waiver as a condition for employment?
Would you please check for the Chicago Academy(officially CPS Performance unofficially contract school).During my battle against closure of Orr I was able to pull different numbers from different sources(INSIDE the CPS!).AUSL advertised in the Union Teachers thanks to the intelligence of the combination of MS and JO) is the operating body.
Today I was told about 5 year contracts with their new staff.How about our Agreement?Waiver as a condition for employment?
Tue May 6, 2008 at 7:15 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
Charlie,
Agree CPS has plenty of corporate/patronage smoke and mirrors. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Also agree about good intentions of teachers and others who started charters for innovation and ed. reform.
What do you think about charters being accountable to communities in the ways I mentioned, elected board, lsc, open meetings, due process, workplace democracy, etc.? As CPS demonstrates, families voting with their feet by leaving doesn't solve many problems. Why not put the public in charter public schools? You may say parents are involved, and they are sometimes, but on administration's terms only. What about governance?
Agree CPS has plenty of corporate/patronage smoke and mirrors. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Also agree about good intentions of teachers and others who started charters for innovation and ed. reform.
What do you think about charters being accountable to communities in the ways I mentioned, elected board, lsc, open meetings, due process, workplace democracy, etc.? As CPS demonstrates, families voting with their feet by leaving doesn't solve many problems. Why not put the public in charter public schools? You may say parents are involved, and they are sometimes, but on administration's terms only. What about governance?
Tue May 6, 2008 at 7:27 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
Charles -
Being a non-profit amateur doesn't make you more competent than a dishonest mercenary. It only makes you more pious.
Being a good educator doesn't automatically make you a good educational administrator, although to be a good educational administrator you need to have been a good educator (are you listening, Arne and your pack of B school idiots?).
Do all good cooks make good restauranteurs?
Do all good musicians make excellent conductors?
Do all good artists make perfect museum curators?
No. No. No.
And, sorry, Charlie; no.
Being a non-profit amateur doesn't make you more competent than a dishonest mercenary. It only makes you more pious.
Being a good educator doesn't automatically make you a good educational administrator, although to be a good educational administrator you need to have been a good educator (are you listening, Arne and your pack of B school idiots?).
Do all good cooks make good restauranteurs?
Do all good musicians make excellent conductors?
Do all good artists make perfect museum curators?
No. No. No.
And, sorry, Charlie; no.
Tue May 6, 2008 at 9:08 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
wrong my dear. Charters are being open in areas where enrollment is dropping and now dropping more due to the charters and those charters are not doing well. Then, the charters kick out the underperforming kids, and send the to the 'hood school which was working hard and smart and showed excellent growth, but then those kids that get kicked out have to be taken by the 'hood school. Charter scores go up, 'hood school scores start to drop along with enrollement.
If the Ren 10-charters was NOT about sabotage, I would believe their miracles. I teach in a school that is closing becasue of the charter and we performed better for years and had better capacity--now charter moves in, parents come and ask for test scores from the counselor, becasue the charter requires them for their child to get in. IEP? They automatically came back to us. Behavior problem?, they automatically got expelled from the charter. Some parents have come back to us saying they were sorry they left. oops! Too late; we are closed.
If the Ren 10-charters was NOT about sabotage, I would believe their miracles. I teach in a school that is closing becasue of the charter and we performed better for years and had better capacity--now charter moves in, parents come and ask for test scores from the counselor, becasue the charter requires them for their child to get in. IEP? They automatically came back to us. Behavior problem?, they automatically got expelled from the charter. Some parents have come back to us saying they were sorry they left. oops! Too late; we are closed.
Tue May 6, 2008 at 9:13 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
dear retired principal (and many others) --
since you're anonymous, why not tell us what schools you're talking about so we can better know what you're talking about and weigh your claims more clearly?
-- alexander
since you're anonymous, why not tell us what schools you're talking about so we can better know what you're talking about and weigh your claims more clearly?
-- alexander
Tue May 6, 2008 at 9:50 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
Renaissance 2010 is an attack on the general elementary and general high schools!!!
Tue May 6, 2008 at 11:08 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
Chris, Chicago Academy HS PSAE % Meet/Exceed for students for 2007 was 29.8.
Tue May 6, 2008 at 11:53 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
When charter schools MUST enroll every child in their attendance area and reach the class size that my son's neighborhood school has (36 in 3rd grade) instead of cutting off and keeping small class sizes AND when the charters educate special ed students properly and with the proper personel (check out the reason most don't make AYP) AND when behavoir problem students can't be counseled out/de-enrolled AND when you see TWO classrooms of K, 1st, 2nd and 3rd only to find after ISAT's the charters NOW have one of each garde 4th-8th, THEN and only THEN can the charters be compared to neighborhood schools. The vast majority of neighborhood schools out perform the charter schools. I wish someone would count: How many charter schools out perform ALL neighborhood CPS schools on the ISAT...
Wed May 7, 2008 at 12:11 AM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
I will admit that I believe charter schools are safer (because as I noted in my previous post--charters will "put a child out" who behaves/performs badly on standardized tests) than CPS schools and might even consider enrolling my son in a charter HS but only if one of them could posibbly produce higher ACT scores and sucessful college entry than a CPS selective enrollment/magnet school. If this doesn't happen and my child is not enrolled in a magnet/selective enrollment CPS HS, I may have to send my child to a catholic HS (only because private will be out of my price range).
Wed May 7, 2008 at 6:45 AM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
The other day, I was at a professional development meeting which involved teachers from both charter and regular CPS public schools. At my table were myself, two teachers from charters, and two teachers from CPS schools, including one of the best English teachers I know of. She's relatively young, with about 10 years experience and teaches in a high school that has a good reputation but recently had its very popular principal removed by the LSC.
She is frustrated with the idiotic district mandates that are imposed on her, with very heavy budget cuts over the last few years, with deadwood staff that she says occupy many key teaching and non-teaching positions in the school.
In the course of our conversation, she said she had thought of switching to a charter school where she could concentrate on teaching, but she had two young children and was afraid that the required hours for meetings and activities in the late afternoon and during the summers would not allow her to raise her kids. Both of the young men from (two different) charter schools agreed with her. They both said that their schools are really more suited for young people who don't have families yet.
This is anecdotal, of course, but the same story is told over and over through the world of teachers: I hear that most of the charters, especially the organization-run ones are more focused on implementing an institutional strategy, which involves endless meetings and trainings and collective activities, than they are on supporting individual teachers who have figured out how to do it right.
I had a colleague a year ago who threw herself heart and soul into her teaching and got results, in both engagement and test scores. Her juniors in English made the highest gains of any small CPS school--once selective enrollment schools are taken out--in the city on PSAE two years ago. But a nightmare principal pushed her to switch to a multi-campus charter school, where she was much happier but she is now leaving teaching. It isn't so much the individual administrators in her school, but the company policies and the requirements for non-classroom meetings and work that leave her no time or energy for her life.
I write this as someone who teaches in a regular CPS school, who generally is in school weekends throughout the school year, gives my cell phone to parents, and is in school from 7 a.m. till 5 p.m. most days. It's not that I am looking for a place with short hours; but a place where my hours are mine to work with students. I wonder whether someone with some years of experience in both charters and CPS would want to respond to these stories and the implications they raise.
She is frustrated with the idiotic district mandates that are imposed on her, with very heavy budget cuts over the last few years, with deadwood staff that she says occupy many key teaching and non-teaching positions in the school.
In the course of our conversation, she said she had thought of switching to a charter school where she could concentrate on teaching, but she had two young children and was afraid that the required hours for meetings and activities in the late afternoon and during the summers would not allow her to raise her kids. Both of the young men from (two different) charter schools agreed with her. They both said that their schools are really more suited for young people who don't have families yet.
This is anecdotal, of course, but the same story is told over and over through the world of teachers: I hear that most of the charters, especially the organization-run ones are more focused on implementing an institutional strategy, which involves endless meetings and trainings and collective activities, than they are on supporting individual teachers who have figured out how to do it right.
I had a colleague a year ago who threw herself heart and soul into her teaching and got results, in both engagement and test scores. Her juniors in English made the highest gains of any small CPS school--once selective enrollment schools are taken out--in the city on PSAE two years ago. But a nightmare principal pushed her to switch to a multi-campus charter school, where she was much happier but she is now leaving teaching. It isn't so much the individual administrators in her school, but the company policies and the requirements for non-classroom meetings and work that leave her no time or energy for her life.
I write this as someone who teaches in a regular CPS school, who generally is in school weekends throughout the school year, gives my cell phone to parents, and is in school from 7 a.m. till 5 p.m. most days. It's not that I am looking for a place with short hours; but a place where my hours are mine to work with students. I wonder whether someone with some years of experience in both charters and CPS would want to respond to these stories and the implications they raise.
Wed May 7, 2008 at 10:06 AM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
here's what CPS has to say about a new study about charters:
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
May 7, 2008
National Study Finds Chicago Charter School Students
More Likely to Graduate from High School, Attend College
Charter schools are one of many high-quality, diverse educational options, says Duncan
According to a recent national study conducted by the RAND Corporation and Mathematica Policy Research, Chicago Public School students continuing in charter high schools have a better chance of graduating high school and enrolling in college than students in other public schools.
RAND and Mathematica determined 8th-grade charter school students continuing in a charter high school are 7 percent more likely to graduate from high school, and 11 percent more likely of enrolling in college.
The study also found 8th-graders who continue in charter high schools in Chicago have an ACT score half a point higher than students at traditional high schools.
“We’re very pleased to hear how well our charter school students are prepared for their future,” said CPS Chief Executive Officer Arne Duncan. “But we aren’t surprised by these results. We work hard to make sure all of our schools are among the many high-quality educational options for parents looking for the right fit for their children.”
RAND and Mathematica further concluded Chicago charter schools do not “skim the cream” by attracting the top students from nearby neighborhood schools.
On average, the study found that the prior achievement levels of students transferring into charter schools differed only slightly from the achievement levels of their peers at the neighborhood schools.
On the heels of the RAND/Mathematica study, a charter school report issued this week by the CPS Office of New Schools came to similar conclusions when comparing charter school students and comparison neighborhood schools.
According to the Office of New Schools’ 2006-2007 Charter School Performance Report, charter elementary school students achieve at higher rates than the district average, and charter high school students are more likely to have higher attendance rates than students attending neighborhood schools.
—more—
In 2007, 68.7 percent of charter elementary school students met or exceeded state standards on the Illinois Standards Achievement Test (ISAT) composite score, 4.6 percentage points higher than the district average.
The report also found 92 percent of charter high school students attended school during the 2006-2007 school year, compared to the 84 percent district average.
And overall, the report found charter schools outperformed neighborhood schools on 84 percent of the student measures used to evaluate each school, including standardized assessment, attendance, transfer-out, drop-out and graduation rate.
“By and large, this data shows why charter schools are in demand—high education standards set and adhered to by charter school operators, teachers and staff on a daily basis,” said Josh Edelman, CPS executive officer of New Schools.
To date, 30 charter schools on 67 campuses have been created, mostly under Renaissance 2010, Mayor Richard M. Daley’s initiative to create 100 new schools by the year 2010. This fall, of the 21 new educational options available for students through Renaissance 2010, 11 will be charter schools.
The Chicago Public Schools is the nation’s third-largest school system. It includes more than 600 schools and about 415,000 students.
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
May 7, 2008
National Study Finds Chicago Charter School Students
More Likely to Graduate from High School, Attend College
Charter schools are one of many high-quality, diverse educational options, says Duncan
According to a recent national study conducted by the RAND Corporation and Mathematica Policy Research, Chicago Public School students continuing in charter high schools have a better chance of graduating high school and enrolling in college than students in other public schools.
RAND and Mathematica determined 8th-grade charter school students continuing in a charter high school are 7 percent more likely to graduate from high school, and 11 percent more likely of enrolling in college.
The study also found 8th-graders who continue in charter high schools in Chicago have an ACT score half a point higher than students at traditional high schools.
“We’re very pleased to hear how well our charter school students are prepared for their future,” said CPS Chief Executive Officer Arne Duncan. “But we aren’t surprised by these results. We work hard to make sure all of our schools are among the many high-quality educational options for parents looking for the right fit for their children.”
RAND and Mathematica further concluded Chicago charter schools do not “skim the cream” by attracting the top students from nearby neighborhood schools.
On average, the study found that the prior achievement levels of students transferring into charter schools differed only slightly from the achievement levels of their peers at the neighborhood schools.
On the heels of the RAND/Mathematica study, a charter school report issued this week by the CPS Office of New Schools came to similar conclusions when comparing charter school students and comparison neighborhood schools.
According to the Office of New Schools’ 2006-2007 Charter School Performance Report, charter elementary school students achieve at higher rates than the district average, and charter high school students are more likely to have higher attendance rates than students attending neighborhood schools.
—more—
In 2007, 68.7 percent of charter elementary school students met or exceeded state standards on the Illinois Standards Achievement Test (ISAT) composite score, 4.6 percentage points higher than the district average.
The report also found 92 percent of charter high school students attended school during the 2006-2007 school year, compared to the 84 percent district average.
And overall, the report found charter schools outperformed neighborhood schools on 84 percent of the student measures used to evaluate each school, including standardized assessment, attendance, transfer-out, drop-out and graduation rate.
“By and large, this data shows why charter schools are in demand—high education standards set and adhered to by charter school operators, teachers and staff on a daily basis,” said Josh Edelman, CPS executive officer of New Schools.
To date, 30 charter schools on 67 campuses have been created, mostly under Renaissance 2010, Mayor Richard M. Daley’s initiative to create 100 new schools by the year 2010. This fall, of the 21 new educational options available for students through Renaissance 2010, 11 will be charter schools.
The Chicago Public Schools is the nation’s third-largest school system. It includes more than 600 schools and about 415,000 students.
Wed May 7, 2008 at 11:30 AM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
From Charter school report at RAND:
"The research team gauged the achievement effects of charter schools in elementary and middle grade...Consistent with similar studies in other locations, the team found only SMALL DIFFERENCES in average achievement gains between charter schools and CPS schools, and these differences do not point in consistent directions. The only strong fidning regarding achievement is that charter schools do not do well raising student achievement in their first year of operation."
"The overall performance of Chicago's charter schools in raising student test scores is approximately on par with that of traditional public schools in Chicago."
For more info, visit RAND website.
"The research team gauged the achievement effects of charter schools in elementary and middle grade...Consistent with similar studies in other locations, the team found only SMALL DIFFERENCES in average achievement gains between charter schools and CPS schools, and these differences do not point in consistent directions. The only strong fidning regarding achievement is that charter schools do not do well raising student achievement in their first year of operation."
"The overall performance of Chicago's charter schools in raising student test scores is approximately on par with that of traditional public schools in Chicago."
For more info, visit RAND website.
Wed May 7, 2008 at 1:09 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
The Charter Schools are doing a great disservice to students in CPS schools. The ancillary service teams, nurses, social workers etc. not only service CPS students but must service Charter Schools too. This practice takes precious time away from the students of CPS.
There is a problem with that practice.
Why don't they have their own teams?
There is a problem with that practice.
Why don't they have their own teams?
Wed May 7, 2008 at 1:11 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
I have a friend who is a case manager at a multi-campus charter school. The salary of all the SPED teachers is paid by CPS. Too many of the resources that would go the students in CPS general high schools are diverted to private concerns. The regular ed teaching staff does not get compensated on the same salary scale as we do. They do pay into the CTPF, so all they lack is union protection. They have required meetings - after school - and Saturdays. Anyone whose Sabbath is Saturday would be ineligible for employment.
Wed May 7, 2008 at 10:44 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
You should visit a charter school. Parents are pleased. Students are learning. Teachers are working hard and have gains to show for it. Now need to be scared. Come visit. I promise--there is no boogity boogity scary stuff happening. Just learning.
Wed May 7, 2008 at 10:52 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
is that none of the charter school teachers EVER say what school they work for. I know many of the posts are "cloak and dagger" but many people mention what school they are talking about. I guess you charter school employees with no union potection are vey afraid to mention your schools. Is it because some parent will have somthing negative to say about what goes on?
Wed May 7, 2008 at 11:02 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
There are so many campuses for CICS--is that a good charter school? My child was accepted and because they have so many campuses I was thinking they are good. Please someone help me decide. Could parents who have children at these schools tell me if they are satified? I looked at ISAT scores and some campuses are better than others. My neighboorhood school's ISAT scores are higher in reading and lower in math. What should I do?
Thu May 8, 2008 at 7:39 AM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
I've always emjoyed your responses. Can you answer the previous post. I'm just curious? I have a friend who is sending their child to CICS for Kindergarten in the fall.
Thu May 8, 2008 at 8:12 AM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
From what I've read with the report and others, there are some messed up charter schools, just as there are messed up traditional schools. Some students and parents are satisfied at the charter schools; some are satisfied with traditional schools. Some students graduate and go to college from charter schools; some graduate and go to college from traditional schools. Some students attend school at the charters each and every day; some attend the traditional schools each and every day. Some teacher work hard at charter schools; some teachers work hard at traditional schools..I'm not seeing a big difference here. SO, AGAIN I ASK: Why charter schools? Why not FIX the traditional schools that aren't working? Why must everything be "charterized"? If everything is soooo bad, why can't we just fix the schools we now have?
Thu May 8, 2008 at 8:50 AM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
Dear need advice, here are the ISAT Composite Scores for all the campuses for Chgo Intl Chrt: Basil, 2004-24.9, 2005-43.4, 2006-55.7, 2007-65.6; Buckt, 2001-57.2, 2002-60.7, 2003-67.1, 2004-60.3, 2005-59.9, 2006-77.1, 2007-76.4; Longw, 2001-39.6, 2002-51.0, 2003-67.1, 2004-66.3, 2005-71.2, 2006-76.4, 2007-77.7; Prair, 2001-33.7, 2002-56.5, 2003-58.4, 2004-57.3, 2005-68.1, 2006-65.8, 2007-65.3; Sshor, 2006-57.5, 2007-60.2; Wbel, 2003-48.4, 2004-65.0, 2005-58.9, 2006-73.7, 2007-76.7; Wpk, 2001-23.4, 2002-28.2, 2003-39.0, 2004-40.1, 2005-47.5, 2006-62.4, 2007-57.7; Wwood, 2006-46.5, 2007-54.8. P.S.- The Chicago Public Schools are closing general elementary and general high schools for every charter or contract school that they open!!!
Thu May 8, 2008 at 10:59 AM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
At this rate, in what year will CPS be 100 percent charter schools?
Thu May 8, 2008 at 11:14 AM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
I don't say what school I work at because I don't want anyone to assume that my opinions reflect that of the school I work for, or vice versa. I'm not afraid of being fired or being found out, but when I comment here (although it is often during quick breaks from work) I am not commenting on behalf of my school, but myself and my own opinions.
Here's an idea (which will be very unpopular, I'm sure)...why not require a one page application for all public schools? why not put enrollment caps on all schools? you could still have neighborhood boundaries, but if you get more applicants than the enrollment cap, you hold a lottery and a few students might end up being bussed to the next nearest school with open spaces. Why not make it easier for all schools to kick out kids who are not making any attempt to participate in their education or who are violently disrupting the education of others?
Why are these, at face value, bad things?
Education is not a constitutional right. Maybe it should be, but it's not right now. And even the rights that do exist require involved and active citizenship to take advantage of them. For instance, the right to bear arms is a constitutional right, but I still have to go through a ton of paper work to take advantage of that right, and if I'm not a good citizen that right can be taken away from me. I have to sit in long lines, fill out paper work, pay a fee and then wait half a year to get my passport just so I can leave the country. Just getting an idea, period, which is required to do many things that most people would view as "rights" takes more than a bit of effort.
It takes the same amount of paper work to get into a charter school as it takes to vote.
So why is it that I should just be able to walk up to the door of the closest school and demand that might kid has the right to learn there?
I want to see all kids receive the best education possible as much as anyone else, but increasing, what I'll call the "civic responsibilities" to take advantage of that "right" wouldn't be the worst thing. And if it's done right, it doesn't have to be a classist or a racist thing (which I can already hear people yelling at me about).
So I'm proposing a city wide school application. To enroll any student at any school, you must fill out a one page application (this would also be a way to make sure kids have their immunizations and everything else). I'm also proposing enrollment caps that are in line with the union's maximum class size agreement, with a built in lottery for schools with too many applications and then a busing system to take younger students to the next closest elementary school. As part of this, charters would be required to leave some open seats for overflow from nearby elementary schools.
What do people think?
Here's an idea (which will be very unpopular, I'm sure)...why not require a one page application for all public schools? why not put enrollment caps on all schools? you could still have neighborhood boundaries, but if you get more applicants than the enrollment cap, you hold a lottery and a few students might end up being bussed to the next nearest school with open spaces. Why not make it easier for all schools to kick out kids who are not making any attempt to participate in their education or who are violently disrupting the education of others?
Why are these, at face value, bad things?
Education is not a constitutional right. Maybe it should be, but it's not right now. And even the rights that do exist require involved and active citizenship to take advantage of them. For instance, the right to bear arms is a constitutional right, but I still have to go through a ton of paper work to take advantage of that right, and if I'm not a good citizen that right can be taken away from me. I have to sit in long lines, fill out paper work, pay a fee and then wait half a year to get my passport just so I can leave the country. Just getting an idea, period, which is required to do many things that most people would view as "rights" takes more than a bit of effort.
It takes the same amount of paper work to get into a charter school as it takes to vote.
So why is it that I should just be able to walk up to the door of the closest school and demand that might kid has the right to learn there?
I want to see all kids receive the best education possible as much as anyone else, but increasing, what I'll call the "civic responsibilities" to take advantage of that "right" wouldn't be the worst thing. And if it's done right, it doesn't have to be a classist or a racist thing (which I can already hear people yelling at me about).
So I'm proposing a city wide school application. To enroll any student at any school, you must fill out a one page application (this would also be a way to make sure kids have their immunizations and everything else). I'm also proposing enrollment caps that are in line with the union's maximum class size agreement, with a built in lottery for schools with too many applications and then a busing system to take younger students to the next closest elementary school. As part of this, charters would be required to leave some open seats for overflow from nearby elementary schools.
What do people think?
Thu May 8, 2008 at 11:51 AM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
Announced earlier this week as part of the press release on the RAND study, the Chicago charter schools performance report is now out and online as a PDF.. It's put out every years by the Office of New Schools and can be accessed through the following link. I haven't looked at it yet, but wanted everyone who's working in and thinking about charters to know it was there.
UPDATE: The folks at UNO didn't waste any time in sending out a press release highlighting how they did, on average (not sure if campus-specific info is available). Click below to see the text.
/ alexander
UPDATE: The folks at UNO didn't waste any time in sending out a press release highlighting how they did, on average (not sure if campus-specific info is available). Click below to see the text.
/ alexander
Thu May 8, 2008 at 12:11 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
Charlie - Tell me more about how CPS would, with such a plan, address kids without immunization, no applications turned in, missing info on the applications, the kids who act up or act out, the disabled kids, homeless kids, etc. What would be the plan to capture these students? (not a challenge, just want to know)
Thu May 8, 2008 at 1:02 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
Let us not forget that charter schools were originally proposed by the president of the American Federation of Teachers, the mama of teacher's unions. They were never designed to be "for-profit" or run by corporations. Children are not products and it is impossible to turn them out in an assembly line fashion. It is a shame that society's ills affect the ability of some children to grow and flourish like other's (and as some on this blog intimate parents who don't care). The worst crackhead in America cares about their kids. Whether or not they can provide is another subject, but they care and their children are entitled to a quality education.
Charter schools are not an attempt to provide a better education. The children who would benefit most rarely get into charter schools. Their sole purpose in Chicago is to PRIVATIZE education. My only question is this: If the union is destabilized and all schools are private, who then will take the blame for students who do not "achieve". No Child Left Standing??? Parents? Our illustrious mayor (Mr. Take the bar 7 times before you pass????)
Charter schools are not an attempt to provide a better education. The children who would benefit most rarely get into charter schools. Their sole purpose in Chicago is to PRIVATIZE education. My only question is this: If the union is destabilized and all schools are private, who then will take the blame for students who do not "achieve". No Child Left Standing??? Parents? Our illustrious mayor (Mr. Take the bar 7 times before you pass????)
Thu May 8, 2008 at 7:30 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
Charlie, CPS won't go along with your plan!!!!!!!!!! The general elementary schools and general high schools have been calling for this for a long time!!!!!!!!!! General elementary schools and general high schools MUST TAKE all students who can't go anywhere else from August to June!!!!!!!!!! When students are kicked out charter schools, contract schools or anybody else's schools, the general schools MUST TAKE THEM!!!!!!!!!! That's the way it is in the land of CPS!!!!!!!!!!
Thu May 8, 2008 at 7:47 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
Right?
Dear Charter Charley
I agree where you work is your business. However I think you wrote once
You are at a charter school? I am at a General High School.
I don’t like personal attacks so let me just ask. Where did you learn US History?
I hope you know that the right to an education pre-dates the Constitution .Review
The Northwest Ordinance of 1787 and let us know the purpose of section 16
in every Federal Township. Legal description is not mentioned in the Constitution
because it was already in effect .In fact that is why Abraham Lincolns Father
moved to Illinois .But I’ll save that story for my kids. Remember Section 16.
Dear Charter Charley
I agree where you work is your business. However I think you wrote once
You are at a charter school? I am at a General High School.
I don’t like personal attacks so let me just ask. Where did you learn US History?
I hope you know that the right to an education pre-dates the Constitution .Review
The Northwest Ordinance of 1787 and let us know the purpose of section 16
in every Federal Township. Legal description is not mentioned in the Constitution
because it was already in effect .In fact that is why Abraham Lincolns Father
moved to Illinois .But I’ll save that story for my kids. Remember Section 16.
Thu May 8, 2008 at 11:53 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
Student raped at CICS campus
http://www.nbc5.com/news/16207896/detail.html?dl=headlineclick
http://www.nbc5.com/news/16207896/detail.html?dl=headlineclick
Fri May 9, 2008 at 10:14 AM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
Hi 1.04,
Are you referring to Sec. 14, Art. 3:
"Art. 3. Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged. The utmost good faith shall always be observed towards the Indians; their lands and property shall never be taken from them without their consent; and, in their property, rights, and liberty, they shall never be invaded or disturbed, unless in just and lawful wars authorized by Congress; but laws founded in justice and humanity, shall from time to time be made for preventing wrongs being done to them, and for preserving peace and friendship with them."
Perhaps this specific line: "Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged."
Encouraging education is certainly a far cry from guaranteeing it as a right. And let's think about how closely we followed the line that follows about never taking lands or properties from [Native Americans], we sure upheld that one.
Next question...
Are you referring to Sec. 14, Art. 3:
"Art. 3. Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged. The utmost good faith shall always be observed towards the Indians; their lands and property shall never be taken from them without their consent; and, in their property, rights, and liberty, they shall never be invaded or disturbed, unless in just and lawful wars authorized by Congress; but laws founded in justice and humanity, shall from time to time be made for preventing wrongs being done to them, and for preserving peace and friendship with them."
Perhaps this specific line: "Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged."
Encouraging education is certainly a far cry from guaranteeing it as a right. And let's think about how closely we followed the line that follows about never taking lands or properties from [Native Americans], we sure upheld that one.
Next question...
Fri May 9, 2008 at 1:15 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
Hi 1.04,
Are you referring to Sec. 14, Art. 3:
"Art. 3. Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged. The utmost good faith shall always be observed towards the Indians; their lands and property shall never be taken from them without their consent; and, in their property, rights, and liberty, they shall never be invaded or disturbed, unless in just and lawful wars authorized by Congress; but laws founded in justice and humanity, shall from time to time be made for preventing wrongs being done to them, and for preserving peace and friendship with them."
Perhaps this specific line: "Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged."
Encouraging education is certainly a far cry from guaranteeing it as a right. And let's think about how closely we followed the line that follows about never taking lands or properties from [Native Americans], we sure upheld that one.
Next question...
Are you referring to Sec. 14, Art. 3:
"Art. 3. Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged. The utmost good faith shall always be observed towards the Indians; their lands and property shall never be taken from them without their consent; and, in their property, rights, and liberty, they shall never be invaded or disturbed, unless in just and lawful wars authorized by Congress; but laws founded in justice and humanity, shall from time to time be made for preventing wrongs being done to them, and for preserving peace and friendship with them."
Perhaps this specific line: "Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged."
Encouraging education is certainly a far cry from guaranteeing it as a right. And let's think about how closely we followed the line that follows about never taking lands or properties from [Native Americans], we sure upheld that one.
Next question...
Fri May 9, 2008 at 5:46 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
Charter Charlie Good Evening
Actually no, I was not referring to article 3 but I’ll comment on that in a second.
I was talking about this:
There shall be reserved for the United States out of every township the four lots, being numbered 8,11,26,29, and out of every fractional part of a township, so many lots of the same numbers as shall be found thereon, for future sale. There shall be reserved the lot No. 16, of every township, for the maintenance of public schools within the said township, also one-third part of all gold, silver, lead and copper mines, to be sold, or otherwise disposed of as Congress shall hereafter direct....
Now that comes from the Virginia Land Ordinance of 1784, which of course became
The land Ordinance of 1785, carried over to the Northwest ordinance of 1787.
That piece of work was so well written that its provisions were the blueprint for every new state since. And yes public support for schools is not listed in the Constitution because it had already been written into our law. And note they used the only thing of real value owned by the united colonies--- land to pay for a public school system.
I think the schools set up by good intentioned idiots on Indian reservations would
Make the damnation of them an indictment of, not public schools, but school’s not
unlike our present charter schools. These modern Urban zealots will change our very
society because of their overwhelming commitment to the Ideal of the present.
But who is right Nattie Bumpo or Sitting Bull? I guess only Chingacook knows for sure.But the Rev.Wheelock tried.
Actually no, I was not referring to article 3 but I’ll comment on that in a second.
I was talking about this:
There shall be reserved for the United States out of every township the four lots, being numbered 8,11,26,29, and out of every fractional part of a township, so many lots of the same numbers as shall be found thereon, for future sale. There shall be reserved the lot No. 16, of every township, for the maintenance of public schools within the said township, also one-third part of all gold, silver, lead and copper mines, to be sold, or otherwise disposed of as Congress shall hereafter direct....
Now that comes from the Virginia Land Ordinance of 1784, which of course became
The land Ordinance of 1785, carried over to the Northwest ordinance of 1787.
That piece of work was so well written that its provisions were the blueprint for every new state since. And yes public support for schools is not listed in the Constitution because it had already been written into our law. And note they used the only thing of real value owned by the united colonies--- land to pay for a public school system.
I think the schools set up by good intentioned idiots on Indian reservations would
Make the damnation of them an indictment of, not public schools, but school’s not
unlike our present charter schools. These modern Urban zealots will change our very
society because of their overwhelming commitment to the Ideal of the present.
But who is right Nattie Bumpo or Sitting Bull? I guess only Chingacook knows for sure.But the Rev.Wheelock tried.
Fri May 9, 2008 at 6:07 PM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
Not a section of legalese, but a section of land, Chuck.
"The Ordinance of 1784 established that the western territories would become states, but it failed to establish how the government would distribute the land or how the territory would be settled. "
The Land Ordinance of 1785 dealt with these issues. As the states and Indians relinquished lands, government surveyors were to divide the territory into individual townships. Each township was to be square. Each side of the square was to be six miles in length, and the completed square would include a total of 36 square miles of territory. The township would then be divided into one-square mile sections, with each section encompassing 640 acres. Each section received its own number. Section 16 was set aside for a public school."
http://www.lanepl.org/Blount/jbplaces/documents/F04E7B9F67558E1272C0F3565C91E07C9BA97C7A.html
"The Ordinance of 1784 established that the western territories would become states, but it failed to establish how the government would distribute the land or how the territory would be settled. "
The Land Ordinance of 1785 dealt with these issues. As the states and Indians relinquished lands, government surveyors were to divide the territory into individual townships. Each township was to be square. Each side of the square was to be six miles in length, and the completed square would include a total of 36 square miles of territory. The township would then be divided into one-square mile sections, with each section encompassing 640 acres. Each section received its own number. Section 16 was set aside for a public school."
http://www.lanepl.org/Blount/jbplaces/documents/F04E7B9F67558E1272C0F3565C91E07C9BA97C7A.html
Mon May 12, 2008 at 2:50 AM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
I was talking about this:
"...There shall be reserved for the United States out of every township the four lots, being numbered 8,11,26,29, and out of every fractional part of a township, so many lots of the same numbers as shall be found thereon, for future sale. There shall be reserved the lot No. 16, of every township, for the maintenance of public schools within the said township, also one-third part of all gold, silver, lead and copper mines, to be sold, or otherwise disposed of as Congress shall hereafter direct....
"...Now that comes from the Virginia Land Ordinance of 1784, which of course became The land Ordinance of 1785, carried over to the Northwest ordinance of 1787..."
This also explains why Midway Airport (one perfect mile square) was the last perfect piece of that land in Chicago until CPS was forced (by the School Finance Authority) to transfer it to the City of Chicago 28 years ago at Dollar Store prices. Midway was one of those "Lot 16" pieces of land.
During the fast shuffle (and privatization nonsense) that followed the Shock Doctrine of 1979 and 1980 (the "school financial crisis that gave rise to the School Finance Authority and put Martin Koldyke in power as SFA chairman into the 1990s), Midway, and its future revenues, was stolen by Chicago from the public schools and turned into a slush fund for the city.
Now Mayor Daley is trying to privatize it (er., excuse me, form a "public private partnership" that would take Midway away from public use for 99 years or so).
Midway should go back to CPS ownership and management, with the revenues going into the Operating Fund.
By the way, the lease fees and other revenues from the Lot 16 lands could be used for the Operating Fund, while any money from sale of school land -- like the sale of the land at the corner of Halsted and Madison by Paul Vallas and Rich Daley more than ten years ago -- has to go into the Capital Fund.
Anyway, if Daley gets away with stealing Midway from the public and privatizing it for 99 years (like he did with the Skyway, after spending a half billion dollars renovating it; resurfacing and all), the schools are, once again, the big losers.
"...There shall be reserved for the United States out of every township the four lots, being numbered 8,11,26,29, and out of every fractional part of a township, so many lots of the same numbers as shall be found thereon, for future sale. There shall be reserved the lot No. 16, of every township, for the maintenance of public schools within the said township, also one-third part of all gold, silver, lead and copper mines, to be sold, or otherwise disposed of as Congress shall hereafter direct....
"...Now that comes from the Virginia Land Ordinance of 1784, which of course became The land Ordinance of 1785, carried over to the Northwest ordinance of 1787..."
This also explains why Midway Airport (one perfect mile square) was the last perfect piece of that land in Chicago until CPS was forced (by the School Finance Authority) to transfer it to the City of Chicago 28 years ago at Dollar Store prices. Midway was one of those "Lot 16" pieces of land.
During the fast shuffle (and privatization nonsense) that followed the Shock Doctrine of 1979 and 1980 (the "school financial crisis that gave rise to the School Finance Authority and put Martin Koldyke in power as SFA chairman into the 1990s), Midway, and its future revenues, was stolen by Chicago from the public schools and turned into a slush fund for the city.
Now Mayor Daley is trying to privatize it (er., excuse me, form a "public private partnership" that would take Midway away from public use for 99 years or so).
Midway should go back to CPS ownership and management, with the revenues going into the Operating Fund.
By the way, the lease fees and other revenues from the Lot 16 lands could be used for the Operating Fund, while any money from sale of school land -- like the sale of the land at the corner of Halsted and Madison by Paul Vallas and Rich Daley more than ten years ago -- has to go into the Capital Fund.
Anyway, if Daley gets away with stealing Midway from the public and privatizing it for 99 years (like he did with the Skyway, after spending a half billion dollars renovating it; resurfacing and all), the schools are, once again, the big losers.
Mon May 12, 2008 at 6:30 AM
More Charters For CPS -- Why Not?
George
You are correct about Midway. But remember Chicago as we know it today
Contains all, and parts, of different Townships. Midway was section 16 of Stickney
Township which went from Western Ave to Harlem Ave and from 39th to 87th.
Only with the annexation of part of that township did Chicago get its hands on Midway
Airport. And it shows how well the government of Stickney Township held its
School Section in trust.Most other Townships in Cook County sold off the land
In section 16 for seed money to create schools in the 1840’s.
You are correct about Midway. But remember Chicago as we know it today
Contains all, and parts, of different Townships. Midway was section 16 of Stickney
Township which went from Western Ave to Harlem Ave and from 39th to 87th.
Only with the annexation of part of that township did Chicago get its hands on Midway
Airport. And it shows how well the government of Stickney Township held its
School Section in trust.Most other Townships in Cook County sold off the land
In section 16 for seed money to create schools in the 1840’s.
