ISAT Week Update By now, pretty much everyone's gotten into the swing of ISATs 2008, but I'm wondering how it's going at your schools? Are the ELL kids struggling with the English-language tests, or not so much? Are the tests or procedures any different this year than in the past (harder, easier, better colors and graphics, etc.)? Is CPS or ISBE handling security the same as usual, or being more active than in the past?
Any and all descriptions of how it's going for you would be appreciated.
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Fri Mar 7, 2008 at 9:59 AM
ISAT Week Update
My third-grader took them for the first time this week. She had been nervous for a full year even with no pressure from her school nor her parents, but after the first day she was amazed at how easy the questions were. After that, she actually looked forward to taking them the next day.
On a related note: I don't understand people who say that "teaching to the test" is so terrible. If the teaching that is being done is of basic skills necessary for a child in that grade, what is so wrong with it?? From what I understand, the tests cover reading comprehension, vocabulary, multiplication, word problems, etc. Last time I checked, these are still all good life skills to have. Someone please explain.
On a related note: I don't understand people who say that "teaching to the test" is so terrible. If the teaching that is being done is of basic skills necessary for a child in that grade, what is so wrong with it?? From what I understand, the tests cover reading comprehension, vocabulary, multiplication, word problems, etc. Last time I checked, these are still all good life skills to have. Someone please explain.
Fri Mar 7, 2008 at 4:19 PM
ISAT Week Update
The fourth grade science test was completed today. Looking over the test I see that very few things that were taught in fourth grade using the Foss program were on the test. There were maybe 4 question relating to the Foss program. We no longer have science books, we were told to give the old science books to the children. The old science books, that were given away or thrown out...did indeed have what the children were tested on....but, unfortunately we didnt teach that, we got rid of all of that useless information. Foss thinks the human body, chemicals, magnets and electricity ( which were probably the 4 questions relating to the Foss program were on the ISAT. I spoke to the administration about this and they said, "Oh that was taught in the first thru 3rd grade". The kids can't tell you what they had for dinner,let alone science that was taught in the previous grades. Oh well, what's a teacher to do. We will wait for the results and then be scorned by those in the know asking why our kids did so poorly in science.
Fri Mar 7, 2008 at 5:33 PM
ISAT Week Update
4th graders using Saxon Math - did the ISATs match what they've been learning?
Fri Mar 7, 2008 at 5:43 PM
ISAT Week Update
m - some test-taking skills are good to teach and some practice is necessary. However if all you do is read short passages and answer multiple choice questions and extended responses thenyou are definitely doing an injustice to the children. Reading is meant to be enjoyable - reading and discussing aboutwhat was read is necessary. Kids should be reading whole books where they learn about characters, plot, and how they evolve.
Fri Mar 7, 2008 at 6:32 PM
ISAT Week Update
Many people are confused when they say, "Teaching to the test." You are correct when you ask what is wrong with teaching a kid what he is supposed to know. If you do that, the kids will do well on the exam.
If the exam is good and checks to see if a kid knows what he/she should know or be able to do, the test is valid and will require no "test prep".
I think what most people refer to as bad "test prep" is when students sit all day with a test prep book in front of them or their instruction boils down to multiple choice standards, meaning all they are being taught to do is take a test. If this is the case, it is bad. Students will not know what they are supposed to know and be able to do. They will just understand the dynamics of multiple choice thinking.
Also, if you are only relying on teaching what is on a test you will omit 50% of the standards. I was once at a meeting with all CPS officials when a question was asked, "What about the standards that are not on the test?" The answer was, "You shouldn't worry about those standards if they are not tested." This means your students would not learn how to write narratives, understand political systems, etc., etc...
This is the mentality that will insure our students will never be successful in college. To boot, the research says it won't even help them on "the test".
This does not happen in successful school systems. Students are taught what the standards say they should know and be able to do; the scores will come.
So again, it's not bad to teach a student what they should know, but if you don't understand the purpose of the test Like most CPS officials seem to be), you will do harm to the students.
If the exam is good and checks to see if a kid knows what he/she should know or be able to do, the test is valid and will require no "test prep".
I think what most people refer to as bad "test prep" is when students sit all day with a test prep book in front of them or their instruction boils down to multiple choice standards, meaning all they are being taught to do is take a test. If this is the case, it is bad. Students will not know what they are supposed to know and be able to do. They will just understand the dynamics of multiple choice thinking.
Also, if you are only relying on teaching what is on a test you will omit 50% of the standards. I was once at a meeting with all CPS officials when a question was asked, "What about the standards that are not on the test?" The answer was, "You shouldn't worry about those standards if they are not tested." This means your students would not learn how to write narratives, understand political systems, etc., etc...
This is the mentality that will insure our students will never be successful in college. To boot, the research says it won't even help them on "the test".
This does not happen in successful school systems. Students are taught what the standards say they should know and be able to do; the scores will come.
So again, it's not bad to teach a student what they should know, but if you don't understand the purpose of the test Like most CPS officials seem to be), you will do harm to the students.
Sat Mar 8, 2008 at 6:54 PM
ISAT Week Update
The students at our school seemed to be doing well, and seemed focused. However, after the session in the morning, the kids are completely insane the remainder of the day. Out of control is an understatement. The test itself was organized, and was not too difficult.
Sat Mar 8, 2008 at 8:28 PM
ISAT Week Update
Each day I asked my third grader how did the ISAT go. He said the test was easy. Should I worry that he did very well or very bad?
January through the end of February he went to a tutor twice a week and the school had an after school program for for one hour three days a week. Five extra hours of school seems to have improved his grades. He had A's and B's on his last progress report. Prior to this he always had a few C's. Also, October through December he had tutoring one time a week for writing. He started using study island (web based application aligned toward Illinois state goals--presented in a multiple choice format) over Christmas break through the end of February. I hope everything turns out OK.
I just wanted to add an opinion to teaching to the test. I asked the tutor for test prep. She went over a math and a reading test prep book with him. I could see where she instructed him in areas that he found diffcult from the markings in the book. I knew that my son struggled a bit with test anxiety and all of this prepping improved his confidence as a test taker. His classroom teacher did seem to teach things that would be on the test, but she also taught other things and never neglected Science or Social Studies. However, she did place more emphasis on things that would be on the test. I feel that he has learned a lot. It just has to be a balance. Students must perform well on the ISAT and I think his teacher did what she had to do so the students would be successful on the test. I'm sure she'll get back to regular teaching of the things she omitted for the remainder of the year.
January through the end of February he went to a tutor twice a week and the school had an after school program for for one hour three days a week. Five extra hours of school seems to have improved his grades. He had A's and B's on his last progress report. Prior to this he always had a few C's. Also, October through December he had tutoring one time a week for writing. He started using study island (web based application aligned toward Illinois state goals--presented in a multiple choice format) over Christmas break through the end of February. I hope everything turns out OK.
I just wanted to add an opinion to teaching to the test. I asked the tutor for test prep. She went over a math and a reading test prep book with him. I could see where she instructed him in areas that he found diffcult from the markings in the book. I knew that my son struggled a bit with test anxiety and all of this prepping improved his confidence as a test taker. His classroom teacher did seem to teach things that would be on the test, but she also taught other things and never neglected Science or Social Studies. However, she did place more emphasis on things that would be on the test. I feel that he has learned a lot. It just has to be a balance. Students must perform well on the ISAT and I think his teacher did what she had to do so the students would be successful on the test. I'm sure she'll get back to regular teaching of the things she omitted for the remainder of the year.
Sat Mar 8, 2008 at 9:10 PM
ISAT Week Update
The only time these tests matter is when your child is in 7th grade, and then only if he or she is trying to get into a CPS selective enrollment or IB program for high school. I wouldn't worry about them that much. They do change them from year to year too, so you never know what's going to happen. Some years they're easier and some harder (per grade also). It used to be the IOWA test that was the most important until 2 years ago. They hardly looked at a kid's ISAT score. ISAT's seemed to only be used for measuring a schools progress and status as a whole. Students had to take both tests. At least now it's only one.
Sat Mar 8, 2008 at 10:26 PM
ISAT Week Update
Fourth grade nothing:
I haven't taught 4th grade FOSS for about 5 years, so I don't know if it's changed, but back then FOSS wasn't so grade specific. 3rd and 4th grade could use a kit and align the modules to state standards. When we used FOSS in 4th, we were using the modules on plants (living things), crayfish, rocks and minerals, and simple machines... All of which were on the test.
I haven't taught 4th grade FOSS for about 5 years, so I don't know if it's changed, but back then FOSS wasn't so grade specific. 3rd and 4th grade could use a kit and align the modules to state standards. When we used FOSS in 4th, we were using the modules on plants (living things), crayfish, rocks and minerals, and simple machines... All of which were on the test.
Sun Mar 9, 2008 at 12:59 PM
ISAT Week Update
Third and Eighth grade do matter--no one want their children to attend summer school. Eight graders can't graduate either--they have some small ceremony at the end of the summer with other students from other schools without the joy of graduating with all of their classmates. Another crucial time is fifth grade if you intend on sending your child to an academic center for seventh & eighth grade. So the ISAT scores are more important than you think.
Sun Mar 9, 2008 at 2:10 PM
ISAT Week Update
That's right, forgot about 5th-my mistake. If a child can't pass these tests, then he needs to go to summer school.
Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 7:28 PM
ISAT Week Update
a friend of a freind sent this in:
Now that we are approaching the end of the ISAT testing, several thoughts come to mind.
First of all, I do believe that there should be a system in place which accurately measures individual student progress and achievements, but I wonder if the ISAT, in it’s current form, is the right way to accomplish this.
For the last several weeks the children have been overloaded with homework and, relentlessly drilled with typical ISAT questions and answers, teachers hopefully, trying to prepare/train them for this test.
The timing of this test is odd as well, many teachers apologize up front to the parents, that much of the subject matter, on which the test is based, will not be actually taught until after the test is over.
When the teachers see the “blank stare” of the students, gazing back at them, a simple comment is made....” if you don’t know the answer- just check off answer “c”.. ( for some reason, the teachers feel, that most correct answers fall in the “c” box.) Trying to explain this to young students makes no sense what’s so ever. They just become more nervous, hyper and frustrated. If the educational system is truly trying to educate our children, there needs to be another way.
Can I be angry with the teacher??? Not really, the teachers are under so much pressure to have students perform well on the test,... for the sake of the school’s reputation and more importantly, for the state and federal funding, which is closely tied to this test .
My questions are... What are we doing to our children ??? How are these test result’s even relevant,
Shouldn’t the teaching profession be allowed to actually educate our children?
Shouldn’t learning be something to be enjoyed??? And cherished???
. Have we, as individuals, really, removed ourselves from the process??? What does this mean for our children? And more.. What does this mean for our society as a whole???
For our future and their future??
There was a quote I recently read, by some politician or writer; “you can always find money for war but never for education”.
Now that we are approaching the end of the ISAT testing, several thoughts come to mind.
First of all, I do believe that there should be a system in place which accurately measures individual student progress and achievements, but I wonder if the ISAT, in it’s current form, is the right way to accomplish this.
For the last several weeks the children have been overloaded with homework and, relentlessly drilled with typical ISAT questions and answers, teachers hopefully, trying to prepare/train them for this test.
The timing of this test is odd as well, many teachers apologize up front to the parents, that much of the subject matter, on which the test is based, will not be actually taught until after the test is over.
When the teachers see the “blank stare” of the students, gazing back at them, a simple comment is made....” if you don’t know the answer- just check off answer “c”.. ( for some reason, the teachers feel, that most correct answers fall in the “c” box.) Trying to explain this to young students makes no sense what’s so ever. They just become more nervous, hyper and frustrated. If the educational system is truly trying to educate our children, there needs to be another way.
Can I be angry with the teacher??? Not really, the teachers are under so much pressure to have students perform well on the test,... for the sake of the school’s reputation and more importantly, for the state and federal funding, which is closely tied to this test .
My questions are... What are we doing to our children ??? How are these test result’s even relevant,
Shouldn’t the teaching profession be allowed to actually educate our children?
Shouldn’t learning be something to be enjoyed??? And cherished???
. Have we, as individuals, really, removed ourselves from the process??? What does this mean for our children? And more.. What does this mean for our society as a whole???
For our future and their future??
There was a quote I recently read, by some politician or writer; “you can always find money for war but never for education”.
Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 7:52 PM
ISAT Week Update
And why is ISAT testing always during the height of flu season? I've always wondered that. The results never come back until the fall anyway, so why do they have give them so early?
Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:14 AM
ISAT Week Update
Which subtests do they quick score to determine which 3rd, 6th and 8th grade students have to go to summer school? When are those scores available? Are the scores available to the parents? Is the "quick subtest score" similiar to the score the parent's receive in the fall of the next school year? Has a child ever had to go to summer school because of the "quick subtest score" and the score of entire test comes back higher indicating there was no need for summer school? Are there students whose "quick subtest scores" end up being lower and indicate the child should have attended summer school?
Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 1:44 AM
ISAT Week Update
I haven’t been on here in a while. Couldn’t sleep tonight and thought I would catch up on the wonderful happenings in CPS. The comments and questions by the parents regarding testing and test prep are great. Reading the parents’ questions, I now see how the debate and questions over good test prep and harmful test prep is confusing. I would like to add to this confusion.
My son is getting into basketball and we have been going to a lot of high school playoff games recently so I am going to use a basketball analogy. Forgive me for knowing little about basketball.
What if a basketball team only practiced free throws or judged and recruited talent based solely on height, running speed, the ability to jump high, and free throw percentage?
These are all needed skills and attributes to be successful in basketball. They are all highly measurable items. It is very easy to do this and no one could argue with the data.
The goal of a basketball team is to win games. This is the "real world" of the NBA. If coaches only practiced and measured their progress based on height, jumping ability, the 40 yard dash, and free throw %, they would be in trouble.
Height, great jumping ability, foot speed, and an awesome free throw are very important components of a good basketball team. However, they really don't test a team's ability to win basketball games, the ultimate goal. A team could be superior in all highly measurable areas and still get their asses handed to them when they touch foot in the "real world" of professional basketball. Anyone who watches sports knows there is more to it than these highly measurable items. A player has to have some more or less intangible skills and attributes like heart, determination, court speed, a great knowledge of the game, superior court vision, etc... These things are very hard to measure.
What would happen if a coach were forced to spend an entire year focusing only on practicing free throws, and improving his players’ speed and vertical jump? Odds are they would be a pretty crappy team.
The tests we use to measure a student's performance are limited in scope like the basketball measures. I do believe they are thought out, have evolved over the years and attempt to assess a broader spectrum of skills. In the end, however, they are not perfect and only really assess a limited range of skills.
The assessments are not horrible. In many areas they are accurate measurements of certain skills a student needs to succeed. Focusing on these skills will not hurt a student.
Assessments aren’t the enemy. The danger comes when all the focus is on the assessment. It has become the goal rather than the measuring tool it was intended to be. This over reliance on measures has tipped the scale. Like the basketball analogy, focusing only on these measurable items as the sole factor to determine if a student is ready for college or life in the “real world” may be a recipe for disaster.
When I think of test prep in the negative sense, I picture teachers and schools spending their entire year at the free throw line.
My son is getting into basketball and we have been going to a lot of high school playoff games recently so I am going to use a basketball analogy. Forgive me for knowing little about basketball.
What if a basketball team only practiced free throws or judged and recruited talent based solely on height, running speed, the ability to jump high, and free throw percentage?
These are all needed skills and attributes to be successful in basketball. They are all highly measurable items. It is very easy to do this and no one could argue with the data.
The goal of a basketball team is to win games. This is the "real world" of the NBA. If coaches only practiced and measured their progress based on height, jumping ability, the 40 yard dash, and free throw %, they would be in trouble.
Height, great jumping ability, foot speed, and an awesome free throw are very important components of a good basketball team. However, they really don't test a team's ability to win basketball games, the ultimate goal. A team could be superior in all highly measurable areas and still get their asses handed to them when they touch foot in the "real world" of professional basketball. Anyone who watches sports knows there is more to it than these highly measurable items. A player has to have some more or less intangible skills and attributes like heart, determination, court speed, a great knowledge of the game, superior court vision, etc... These things are very hard to measure.
What would happen if a coach were forced to spend an entire year focusing only on practicing free throws, and improving his players’ speed and vertical jump? Odds are they would be a pretty crappy team.
The tests we use to measure a student's performance are limited in scope like the basketball measures. I do believe they are thought out, have evolved over the years and attempt to assess a broader spectrum of skills. In the end, however, they are not perfect and only really assess a limited range of skills.
The assessments are not horrible. In many areas they are accurate measurements of certain skills a student needs to succeed. Focusing on these skills will not hurt a student.
Assessments aren’t the enemy. The danger comes when all the focus is on the assessment. It has become the goal rather than the measuring tool it was intended to be. This over reliance on measures has tipped the scale. Like the basketball analogy, focusing only on these measurable items as the sole factor to determine if a student is ready for college or life in the “real world” may be a recipe for disaster.
When I think of test prep in the negative sense, I picture teachers and schools spending their entire year at the free throw line.
Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 2:27 AM
ISAT Week Update
Welcome back, Marty.
While your basketball memory is excellent, add one more thing about the current "assessments" -- secrecy and multiple choicedness.
As long as the tests "we" use are (a) secret, even after they have been utilized and (b) based primarily on forced choice multiple choice formats they are even weaker than any of the sports measures your metaphor implies.
That's why I have been staying more and more away from the things that English teachers like ourselves love, including metaphor and analogy, when analyzing and critiquing tests like the ISAT (and, soon, the Prairie State). Add secrecy and you expand the metaphor to infinity.
The tests have to be completely public once they've been given, so that any parent who asks some of the questions like those above in this thread (and teachers, students, and just plain citizens also) can check against the public tests -- the whole tests, not just "samples" like the Sun-Times and Tribune will utilize to trivialize this as soon as we say it.
You know this going back now nearly seven years, and nothing has changed since the Curie debates except that the horrifying abuses of test results have expanded geometrically here in Chicago, while other statistical absurdities have joined them (as late as last month) in condemning schools (including all of the teachers and other staff, right up to principals).
It's never been about the tests, but about the people who want to utilize the tests to strangle public education. Now, more than ever, and you recently spent some time on that other front line, New Orleans, where it's obvious.
Are you ready to join us here in a coalition to make every test completely public once it's been administered, as one small step to restoring democracy in public education? Let us know.
While your basketball memory is excellent, add one more thing about the current "assessments" -- secrecy and multiple choicedness.
As long as the tests "we" use are (a) secret, even after they have been utilized and (b) based primarily on forced choice multiple choice formats they are even weaker than any of the sports measures your metaphor implies.
That's why I have been staying more and more away from the things that English teachers like ourselves love, including metaphor and analogy, when analyzing and critiquing tests like the ISAT (and, soon, the Prairie State). Add secrecy and you expand the metaphor to infinity.
The tests have to be completely public once they've been given, so that any parent who asks some of the questions like those above in this thread (and teachers, students, and just plain citizens also) can check against the public tests -- the whole tests, not just "samples" like the Sun-Times and Tribune will utilize to trivialize this as soon as we say it.
You know this going back now nearly seven years, and nothing has changed since the Curie debates except that the horrifying abuses of test results have expanded geometrically here in Chicago, while other statistical absurdities have joined them (as late as last month) in condemning schools (including all of the teachers and other staff, right up to principals).
It's never been about the tests, but about the people who want to utilize the tests to strangle public education. Now, more than ever, and you recently spent some time on that other front line, New Orleans, where it's obvious.
Are you ready to join us here in a coalition to make every test completely public once it's been administered, as one small step to restoring democracy in public education? Let us know.
Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:43 PM
ISAT Week Update
any advice on the fifth grade expository writing prompt?
