Mon Feb 4, 2008 at 7:50 PMBy: There should be LSCs for Il legislators Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Add drummond to your list of ousted principals--Smith too due to idiotic LSCs. There are more!
They have got to go. This would never be tollerated by the Il legislator--let's have an elected council to telly ou what to do before you vote or spend money. Then, principal's evaluate teachers--the LSC teachers cannot wait to get back at the principal. The legislator gave them this power. There are no other LSC anywhere else in Il or the US. The legislators are more idiotic for doing this. Wake up. There should be LSCs for you.

Mon Feb 4, 2008 at 8:27 PMBy: toni Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Get rid of the residency requirement and it will open the doors to alot of qualified applicants who just don't happen to live in the city!

Mon Feb 4, 2008 at 9:30 PMBy: why Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted why are you posting about andersen in a thread about ravenswood?

Mon Feb 4, 2008 at 10:06 PMBy: cps parent Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Drummond's principal took an early retirement package like so many other principals. I dont remember her name but she was offered another position on Clark st. So now she gets her Principal pension plus she gets a new position which she will have for a few years and get a pension from that too. SWEET!
The principal at my child's school retired last year and is getting a huge pension but she is staying on at the school as a consulting principal collecting yet another cps paycheck.
I like the New Leaders Principals. I truly doubt Pat Bacceleri was is in over his head. He is extremely well Qualified. The parents at South Loop miss him dearly. Another good Principal is Craig Benes over at Talcott. They had some grumblings over at Talcott but from what I hear they worked it out.
It is to bad that the Principal at Ravenswood got the axe. We need principals that think outside the box. I hope another school snatches him up,

Tue Feb 5, 2008 at 3:07 PMBy: cklaus Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Here at Sabin we didn't want to see Mrs. Arroyo go in 06. She had near unanimous teacher approval and scores were going up. The hang-around parents are the ones who invited in Mr. Dassinger and then when he does his job they throw another hissy. As far as how he compares to veterans, it's too soon he seems very preoccupied w/ jumping through legal and other hoops from above, not necessarily his fault. Last year wasn't too smooth, but whose first year is? Most of the LSC consists of different members now than then when they axed Mrs. Arroyo. Will the new improved LSC axe this guy, too? If you ask me, legislators put too much of the shoe on the other foot, some of these people affecting our lives are uneducated, unemployed yo-yos, meddlers who claim to represent the community. It's a tough issue because it then forces teachers to find allied parents to run and win and of course elections and meetings are held at like, 10AM just like Johnson used to do in the US Senate, the productive members of society are discounted.

Tue Feb 5, 2008 at 7:05 PMBy: being counter Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted I find it interesting that all the 'wronged' players who have supposedly been disenfranchised are white men.

Or are those the only ones about whose 'ousters' you care?

Juuuuust askin'....

Tue Feb 5, 2008 at 7:31 PMBy: from principal roche Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted here's a letter from principal erin roche, which was given to faculty and is being sent to parents, in which roche says he respectfully disagrees with the LSC decision and is planning on appealing:

Dear parents, families, friends, teachers, staff, and children of Ravenswood School,

The following comments are adapted from my address to the Local School Council at their emergency meeting January 30, 2008.

As I stated to the LSC after their vote, I disagree with the LSC's decision to not renew my contract. The LSC votes do not coincide with my understanding of parental support and evaluation of performance. I have appealed the decision to not renew my contract. My appeal is meant to show my commitment to Ravenswood School and to the work that we've been doing for the last three years. However, I have begun to look beyond this school year.

I joined Ravenswood three years ago and as principal undertook three major initiatives to improve rapidly student learning: Benchmark assessments, Balanced Literacy, and teacher-directed professional development.

Benchmark assessments are administered every eight weeks and give teachers feedback on individual student progress in specific areas of reading, math, and writing. Teachers use this information to create re-teaching plans, so all students can progress academically.

Balanced Literacy is a framework of instruction that allows teachers to focus on specific learning skills for individual students.

Teacher-directed professional development provides 14 hours each year for teacher teams to expand their instructional repertoire, so students are academically successful. Teacher teams identify their goals and the process by which they meet them.

Alongside these three instructional initiatives, I also began a strategy to embrace ALL the parents of the school's families and to include them actively in their children's school life.

In the past three years, all of these initiatives have resulted in significant improvements at Ravenswood. Test scores are up. Building improvements create a welcoming feel to learning. Classroom communities are stronger. Parent involvement is at an all-time high.

Over the next five months I intend to fully continue the initiatives. They have required faculty to think differently about student learning. That change has been hard for some faculty. Benchmark assessments, balanced literacy, and teacher-directed professional development will continue to build excellent learning for our children.

I am deeply disappointed in the decision of the LSC to not renew my contract. I don't apologize for pushing teachers to a higher standard, but I am sorry that I may have done something that made some teachers not want to renew my contract. I know that this has been hard on everyone.

I appreciate the strong support from parents and teachers in recent days and would welcome it throughout the appeal process. The outcome is less than certain given the vast discretion the Illinois School Code grants to LSCs in making these decisions. Let me be clear that whatever the outcome, I respect local control and the appeal process.

Ms. Blahuta and I will continue to support the good work that will occur over the next five months; at the same time, we have also begun to look for our next school leadership opportunity.

I wish students, their families, and the Ravenswood community continued successes and pledge to work toward that end this year. It is my hope that the next principal chosen by the LSC will support the successful initiatives established here for children.



Estimados padres, familias, amigos, maestros, facultad, y estudiantes de la Escuela Ravenswood,

Los siguientes comentos son parte de mi discurso al Concilio Local Escolar en la junta de emergencia el 30 de enero, 2008.

Como dije despues del voto del concilio, no estoy de acuerdo con la decision del concilio de no renovar el contrato. Los votos del concilio no reflejan como yo entieno el apoyo de padres y evaluación de mi trabajo. Yo apelé la decision de no renovar el contrato. La apelación es para mostra mi dedicación a la escuela y al trabajo que hemos hecho por tres anos.

Vine a Ravenswood hace tres anos y como director empece tres programas principales para mejorar rapidamente el aprendizaje de ninos: Examenes regulares, lectura balanceado, y desarrollo professional dirijido por maestros.

Examenes regulares son administrado cada ocho semanas y dan a los maestros la prueba de progreso academico para cada estudiante en las areas especificas de lectura, matematicas, y escritura. Los maestros usan esta información para crear planes de ensenanza para que todos los estudiantes puedan progresar academicamente.

Lectura balanceada es una estructura de instrucción que dejan a los maestros enfocarse en destrezas especificas de aprendizaje para estudiantes individuales.

Desarrollo profesional dirijido por maestros provee 14 horas cada ano para que equipos de maestros puedan mejorar su instrucción y para mejorar su exito academico. Equipos de maestros identifican sus metas y el proceso de llegar a las metas.

Ademas de estes programas de instrucción, también empecé una estrategia de incluir TODOS los padres de las familias de la escuela e incluirlas activamente en la vida escolar.

En los ultimos tres anos, todos los programas han resultado en mejoramientos grandes en la Ravenswood. Los resultados del los examanes están para arriba. Mejoramientos del edificio crean le dan el bienvenido al visitante. Las comunidades de cada salon son más fuerte. La inclusion de padres es mucho más alto.

En los próximo cinco meses, voy a seguir con estes programas. Ellos han requirido que la facultad piensa diferente por el aprendizaje estudiantil. Este cambio ha sido difícil para unos. Examanes regulares, lectura balanceada, y desarrollo dirijido por maestros van a continuar a construir oportunidades excelentes de aprendizaje para nuestros ninos.

Y aprecio muchísimo el apoyo de padres y mastros en días recientes y durante el proceso de la apelación. El resultado es desconocido dado el control que tiene el concilio por la ley del estado de Illinois. Dejeme clarificar que respeto completament el control local y el proceso de la apelación.

La Sub-directora y yo vamos a continuar el trabajo bueno de los proximos meses; a la vez, hemos a buscar la siguiente oportunidad de liderazgo.

Estoy muy triste de la decision del concilio de no renovar el contrato. No pido perdon por haber empujado los maestros a un nivel mas alto, pero pido perdon que quizas hice algo a los maestros que les hizo no querer renovar el contrato. Yo se que todo el proceso ha sido muy dificil para todos.

Erin Roche

Principal/ Director

Tue Feb 5, 2008 at 8:55 PMBy: being counter Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Dennis -

Please stop perpetuating a stereotype - I am going to trust that none of these white guys will be climbing a tower with automatic weapons; please exercise the same restraint.

As for your exhortations for 'research'; the majority of parents in the city have limited ability to cherry pick schools based on the economic freedom to move where they would like. Because they and their children have little choice but to try to bloom where they are planted, they will be wary of how much fertilizer is being dumped on them. Sorry if you find this scary.

Bippy? I looked this up; it's a joke from a TV show from 40 years ago.

Do you have school aged children?

Tue Feb 5, 2008 at 9:53 PMBy: ????? Being Counter Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Being Counter,

Are you forgetting about the two hundred posts when the Curie principal was ousted?

Tue Feb 5, 2008 at 10:03 PMBy: Roche supporter Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted From the IMSA webiste, where Roche is a board member--seems pretty decent to an outsider like myself..

ERIN ROCHE of Chicago, a member of IMSA's charter class of 1989, is principal of Ravenswood School in Chicago. Mr. Roche holds a bachelor's degree in elementary education and mathematics from Knox College and a master's degree in education from the University of Illinois-Chicago. Mr. Roche has served in Honduras with the Peace Corps, was assistant principal at both Boone Elementary and Noble Street Charter High School in Chicago, and a new school planner with the National Teachers Academy. Mr. Roche has also worked with the Chicago Public Schools in creating Telpochcalli, a school dedicated to developing bilingual English/Spanish students.

Tue Feb 5, 2008 at 10:21 PMBy: Who's the bully? Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted I heard different on the bullies.

* One pro-Roche teacher said that a Teacher LSC Rep had told the teacher to not talk to the LSC on Roche's behalf "or else"

* Another teacher independently said the same

* A parent said that she saw a teacher put her body in between a parent who asked a parent LSC Rep why he voted no; the teacher (you?) told the parent that they couldn't talk to the LSC parent Rep and had to leave the building

Sounds like some low tactics.

Tue Feb 5, 2008 at 10:34 PMBy: Alexander Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Dear parents, families, friends, teachers, staff, and children of Ravenswood School,
The following comments are adapted from my address to the Local School Council at their emergency meeting January 30, 2008.
As I stated to the LSC after their vote, I disagree with the LSCs decision to not renew my contract. The LSC votes do not coincide with my understanding of parental support and evaluation of performance. I have appealed the decision to not renew my contract. My appeal is meant to show my commitment to Ravenswood School and to the work that weve been doing for the last three years. However, I have begun to look beyond this school year.
I joined Ravenswood three years ago and as principal undertook three major initiatives to improve rapidly student learning: Benchmark assessments, Balanced Literacy, and teacher-directed professional development.
Benchmark assessments are administered every eight weeks and give teachers feedback on individual student progress in specific areas of reading, math, and writing. Teachers use this information to create re-teaching plans, so all students can progress academically.
Balanced Literacy is a framework of instruction that allows teachers to focus on specific learning skills for individual students.
Teacher-directed professional development provides 14 hours each year for teacher teams to expand their instructional repertoire, so students are academically successful. Teacher teams identify their goals and the process by which they meet them.
Alongside these three instructional initiatives, I also began a strategy to embrace ALL the parents of the schools families and to include them actively in their childrens school life.
In the past three years, all of these initiatives have resulted in significant improvements at Ravenswood. Test scores are up. Building improvements create a welcoming feel to learning. Classroom communities are stronger. Parent involvement is at an all-time high.
Over the next five months I intend to fully continue the initiatives. They have required faculty to think differently about student learning. That change has been hard for some faculty. Benchmark assessments, balanced literacy, and teacher-directed professional development will continue to build excellent learning for our children.
I am deeply disappointed in the decision of the LSC to not renew my contract. I dont apologize for pushing teachers to a higher standard, but I am sorry that I may have done something that made some teachers not want to renew my contract. I know that this has been hard on everyone.
I appreciate the strong support from parents and teachers in recent days and would welcome it throughout the appeal process. The outcome is less than certain given the vast discretion the Illinois School Code grants to LSCs in making these decisions. Let me be clear that whatever the outcome, I respect local control and the appeal process.
Ms. Blahuta and I will continue to support the good work that will occur over the next five months; at the same time, we have also begun to look for our next school leadership opportunity.
I wish students, their families, and the Ravenswood community continued successes and pledge to work toward that end this year. It is my hope that the next principal chosen by the LSC will support the successful initiatives established here for children.

Estimados padres, familias, amigos, maestros, facultad, y estudiantes de la Escuela Ravenswood,
Los siguientes comentos son parte de mi discurso al Concilio Local Escolar en la junta de emergencia el 30 de enero, 2008.
Como dije despues del voto del concilio, no estoy de acuerdo con la decision del concilio de no renovar el contrato. Los votos del concilio no reflejan como yo entieno el apoyo de padres y evaluacin de mi trabajo. Yo apel la decision de no renovar el contrato. La apelacin es para mostra mi dedicacin a la escuela y al trabajo que hemos hecho por tres anos.
Vine a Ravenswood hace tres anos y como director empece tres programas principales para mejorar rapidamente el aprendizaje de ninos: Examenes regulares, lectura balanceado, y desarrollo professional dirijido por maestros.
Examenes regulares son administrado cada ocho semanas y dan a los maestros la prueba de progreso academico para cada estudiante en las areas especificas de lectura, matematicas, y escritura. Los maestros usan esta informacin para crear planes de ensenanza para que todos los estudiantes puedan progresar academicamente.
Lectura balanceada es una estructura de instruccin que dejan a los maestros enfocarse en destrezas especificas de aprendizaje para estudiantes individuales.
Desarrollo profesional dirijido por maestros provee 14 horas cada ano para que equipos de maestros puedan mejorar su instruccin y para mejorar su exito academico. Equipos de maestros identifican sus metas y el proceso de llegar a las metas.
Ademas de estes programas de instruccin, tambin empec una estrategia de incluir TODOS los padres de las familias de la escuela e incluirlas activamente en la vida escolar.
En los ultimos tres anos, todos los programas han resultado en mejoramientos grandes en la Ravenswood. Los resultados del los examanes estn para arriba. Mejoramientos del edificio crean le dan el bienvenido al visitante. Las comunidades de cada salon son ms fuerte. La inclusion de padres es mucho ms alto.
En los prximo cinco meses, voy a seguir con estes programas. Ellos han requirido que la facultad piensa diferente por el aprendizaje estudiantil. Este cambio ha sido difcil para unos. Examanes regulares, lectura balanceada, y desarrollo dirijido por maestros van a continuar a construir oportunidades excelentes de aprendizaje para nuestros ninos.
Y aprecio muchsimo el apoyo de padres y mastros en das recientes y durante el proceso de la apelacin. El resultado es desconocido dado el control que tiene el concilio por la ley del estado de Illinois. Dejeme clarificar que respeto completament el control local y el proceso de la apelacin.
La Sub-directora y yo vamos a continuar el trabajo bueno de los proximos meses; a la vez, hemos a buscar la siguiente oportunidad de liderazgo.
Estoy muy triste de la decision del concilio de no renovar el contrato. No pido perdon por haber empujado los maestros a un nivel mas alto, pero pido perdon que quizas hice algo a los maestros que les hizo no querer renovar el contrato. Yo se que todo el proceso ha sido muy dificil para todos.
Erin Roche
Principal/ Director

Tue Feb 5, 2008 at 11:14 PMBy: curmudgeon Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted The Spanish in that letter is error-ridden to the nth degree and semi-literate. The writer doesn't even know how to use the subjunctive. It must be a slap in the face of Spanish speakers. And Chicago wants to be a global city!

Tue Feb 5, 2008 at 11:44 PMBy: being counter Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Calling that letter semi-literate is kind. It looks like it was run back and forth through Google translator...

Daley doesn't care if students learn a second language unless it is Chinese, so we can build those great business relationships with companies that make toothpaste out of pencil shavings and paint baby toys with lead paint.

Richie - so hard to learn a second, or even a first language when you have lead poisoning.

Wed Feb 6, 2008 at 6:57 AMBy: Dennis Frank Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Posters
Being Counter, curmudgeon, and esp. Truth Be Told.......

Why don't you post your real names instead of
pseudonym-ing like some hormonal teenager on Facebook?
My guess is we'll find ourselves 1 or 2 or 0 degrees from
an art room at Ravenswood.

Wed Feb 6, 2008 at 8:38 AMBy: Dennis Frank Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted These are all valid points, Alexander.
I don't disagree at all.
I am one of many parents/kids coming in with the existing board.
I can accept the position, but don't have to like the
way it was handled, that being parent reps siding with
a negative faculty. And here, I would have to say
that I side with Principal Roche and his accomplishments and not
the apparently very bad teachers in the upper grades. The great
teachers are in the primary grades. Its 2 schools, plain and simple.

Wed Feb 6, 2008 at 9:29 AMBy: Donald R. Moore Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted the original comments from don moore at DFC were cut off but have now been restored -- check above for the full text -- alexander

Wed Feb 6, 2008 at 10:20 AMBy: Dennis Frank Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Thanks, bean counter....really.
1 down, 2 to go...

Wed Feb 6, 2008 at 11:20 AMBy: the telpochcalli story Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted thanks to mike klonsky for reminding me that there's another potentially more effective and less frustrating way to go when an LSC makes a decision that you don't like than complaining about the LSC law or trying to get the LSC decision reversed after the fact.

at telpochcalli, i'm told, the response when the LSC removed its long-standing principal was to rally against the LSC and get new folks elected, who were -- i'm not sure how -- able to get the original principal reinstated.

the full story from mike is over on his blog --
here, here, among other places.

even if you don't get your original principal back, cases like this demonstrate to LSCs that they can be held accountable politically.

i get the sense, though, that incumbents are mostly unopposed if they run again on LSCs, and are rarely opposed and beaten for making "bad" decisions -- is that right?

are there other examples like telpochcalli where an LSC is replaced through organizing over a specific issue?

Wed Feb 6, 2008 at 12:04 PMBy: hmmm Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Ooo, getting heated up here...

The bs about the Spanish in Roche's letter being "poor" is just petty. Any Spanish speaking family I know is just pleased (and certainly not "slapped in the face') by the effort to include the info in Spanish, just as I am thankful for any English used when I'm traveling outside the US. Perhaps he wrote it himself, considering his time spent in Honduras, and I'd cut anyone slack who is writing in a 2nd language. Feel free, y'all, to fix it if it's important to you that it's grammatically correct.

And yes, closed meeting are, in fact, not for the public, but the minutes are--when are those going to be made public? And whenever ANY body doesn't make their intent LOUD and clear (like posting signs where everyone can take notice of them, not just where they're "required by law"), something dirty is going down.

Change in ANY organization is met with resistance. From what I understand, the changes in Ravenswood reflect the changes in the demographics in their families (and I truly believe that Ravenswood's diversity appealed to all taking a chance with CPS). Growing is going to be painful--but to fire someone who seems, by all accounts, to be a sharp, involved administrator is simply stupid. A year may not seem like a lot to us adults, but a year of turmoil for a child in his/her elementary years is HUGE, and this change, like so many in CPS, seems to have had beginnings a while ago but repercussions that simply exploded in everyone's faces. These kinds of actions do tremendous harm to the kids, who are the ones we should be thinking about.

And last comment for today--like all evolving schools, old time teachers, who got comfortable with their half assed teaching, forgiving themselves because they're "in the trenches", are a HUGE hindrance for growth. Good teachers are constantly evolving and learning. Just like good parents.

Wed Feb 6, 2008 at 12:39 PMBy: Bernard Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted This is not just about LSCs. Check out the ongoing battle at Passages Charter School where an excellent principal has been fired by a governing board (no LSCs in charter schools) without due process or any right of appeal.

Wed Feb 6, 2008 at 1:14 PMBy: hmmm Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted I'm assuming you mean "Since when..." but I'll give you the "courtesy" of accepting that a grammatical error is just that; an error, and by no means disrespect to me and my first language, which happens to be English, and certainly not an intent to slight me, as mistakes happen.

Spanish is not, regardless of whether it "should be", the first language of this country, and therefore any entities "choice" to include it to disseminate information IS a courtesy. Or a wise business move, depending on the arena we're playing in. Of course it makes sense to have school information go home in Spanish (or Polish or Russian) and I support that whole-heartedly--but to bash the grammar of it is petty and rude.

If I were to move to Mexico, I certainly wouldn't have a problem with any grammatical errors in any English-written literature I might get, so what "system" are you talking about and what is its problem?

Wed Feb 6, 2008 at 2:34 PMBy: Greg Janes Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted The issue for the LSC and Ravenswood is whether the problems with Roche were dealt with in an appropriate manner. Listening to the explanation of process that one post refers to does not reveal the truth of the substance of the decision. An entirely fair process can lead to an entirely bad decision. Since the vote, I've spoken with parents and staff who are baffled by the decision. The LSC's reponse is to lawyer-up and claim that they cannot comment. It does us all a disservice to allow speculation and rumor to supplant a rational explanation. Here, the half-hearted defense of the decision by a claim that he bullies parents and disrespects teachers does nothing to shed light on the decision. Was that the reason? If the parents are bullied, why did the parent evaluations come in overwhelmingly positive?

Among the other claims made against Roche is that he required the teachers to make their own copies and that he required the teacher to spend as much time each day assessing the progress of the students as they spend taking the kids to the bathroom. Neither seem like good reasons for the decision.

A more productive approach would be to place contract terms in a new contract to correct the perceived problems. If communication is the problem, that can be addressed. I am a parent of two kids at Ravenswood with a third coming in the fall. Erin Roche is the one who sold us on the school - several years ago when enrollment was way down.

Wed Feb 6, 2008 at 2:51 PMBy: Dennis Frank Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Now I am told that the LSC posting/agenda for tomorrow night's 5:30 p.m.
is "allowing" up to 30 minutes of public speaking at the front end of the meeting. 2 minutes per speaker, so, 15 speakers. Not enough time or people allowed to speak.

Ravenswood School 4332 N. Paulina Street Chicago

Wed Feb 6, 2008 at 5:18 PMBy: Dennis Frank Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted I have a copy of a glowing evaluation from a key faculty member and LSC teacher rep that is very interesting.
I mean, extremely positive.
It is 2 school years old. Somehow her opinion has changed (2 years!) to lead the charge to unseat Principal Roche.
This same teacher rep was part of the process to hire him, as well.

Maybe he was expected to be a lax principal and he turned out to be someone with a vision, 'ya think?

Wed Feb 6, 2008 at 8:30 PMBy: Jon Dempsey Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Can we show a little respect? A good man lost his job. He had only been there 3 years! Does anyone think he had enough time to really make an impact there? It sounds like he tried to implement some very progressive structures in the school. These structures can prove very beneficial to our young people. Maybe teachers had to work harder, I don't know. The one thing I do know is that nearly half of our CPS freshman are graduating High School and out of that only 2% of those graduating high school will be graduating college. I can guarantee Mr. Roche wanted to see high levels of achievement for all his children. His only problem is that he didn't have the "people skills" to fit in at Ravenswood. It is a shame.

Wed Feb 6, 2008 at 8:37 PMBy: An Insighter Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted (2nd half of post..not sure what happened)

Mr. Roche doesn’t know how to deal with the students and lets them walk all over everyone, including himself. When teachers try to address these issues with Mr. Roche/Ms. Blahuta, a blind eye is turned or the buck is passed on to Mr. Pollack (the principal in training with 2 years of classroom experience). These issues make it hard for the teachers to do their jobs. What I hear over and over is that the teachers don’t feel supported. Sure, test scores are up but morale at the school is at an all time low. Mr. Roche doesn’t make the teachers OR the students feel welcome. Instead of a, “Good morning <insert student/teacher name here>,” he walks past them with his blinders on.

A principal should be a leader of a school. That means that he/she should be an example of how he wants his students and teachers to be when they are at school (and out in the world for that fact). If the principal has a sourpuss face on all day, the teachers and students are bound to as well. It’s not just about test scores anymore; it’s about being a person that treats others how he/she wants to be treated. Try a “Good morning” or “Hey, how’s it going?” Instead of ending the school day with, “DO NOT touch the snow when you go outside” try saying, “Have a nice night and be careful walking home, it’s icy out.”

It’s not hard to show others respect but apparently in Mr. Roche’s case it is.

It’s too bad that he thought that buttering up a few of the LSC parents was going to earn him his contract. He is so transparent and the parents, teachers AND students can see right through him. Mr. Roche isn’t being ousted, because HIS actions (or lack of) have gotten him where he’s at today.

A student told me the other day, “I feel bad for Mr. Roche but you know what, he doesn’t even know any of our names so he’ll be fine at another school.” That pretty much sums it up.

Wed Feb 6, 2008 at 8:46 PMBy: An Insighter Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted From what I have observed (and I am a regular observer at Ravenswood), Mr. Roche does not treat the teachers with respect nor the students. There are big issues at Ravenswood with discipline and the fact that there is never anything done about these issues that arise (e.g., student breaking another student's nose, disrespect to teachers, students bullying teachers, students bullying each other, etc.).

*Side note--Mr. Frank the comment that you made about the upper grade teachers is completely false. The teachers in these grades are fabulous, their morale is down and they don't feel supported. You try teaching 7th and 8th graders that call you a "Bitch" or "Asshole" to your face and see how you feel when they're sent to the office and made the "special errand runner" for the rest of the day.

Mr. Roche doesn't know how to deal with the students and lets them walk all over everyone, including himself. When teachers try to address these issues with Mr. Roche/Ms. Blahuta, a blind eye is turned or the buck is passed on to Mr. Pollack (the principal in training with 2 years of classroom experience). These issues make it hard for the teachers to do their jobs. What I hear over and over is that the teachers don't feel supported. Sure, test scores are up but morale at the school is at an all time low. Mr. Roche doesn't make the teachers OR the students feel welcome. Instead of a, "Good morning ," he walks past them with his blinders on.

A principal should be a leader of a school. That means that he/she should be an example of how he wants his students and teachers to be when they are at school (and out in the world for that fact). If the principal has a sourpuss face on all day, the teachers and students are bound to as well. It's not just about test scores anymore; it's about being a person that treats others how he/she wants to be treated. Try a "Good morning" or "Hey, how's it going?" Instead of ending the school day with, "DO NOT touch the snow when you go outside" try saying, "Have a nice night and be careful walking home, it's icy out."

It's not hard to show others respect but apparently in Mr. Roche's case it is.

It's too bad that he thought that buttering up a few of the LSC parents was going to earn him his contract. He is so transparent and the parents, teachers AND students can see right through him. Mr. Roche isn't being ousted, because HIS actions (or lack of) have gotten him where he's at today.

A student told me the other day, "I feel bad for Mr. Roche but you know what, he doesn't even know any of our names so he'll be fine at another school." That pretty much sums it up.

Wed Feb 6, 2008 at 9:03 PMBy: Mr. pollack at ravenwood Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted They put a two year teacher/principal intern with a neophyte principal--this is how they train aspiring principals? What programis that? I want in! Well this intern principal is getting a lesson--two year teacher! Another new leader--what he learns here will damage another school. Find interns and put them with experienced and successful princpals in the inner city! Or are NL afraid thaey will chase their two year candidates and actors away?

Wed Feb 6, 2008 at 9:30 PMBy: Insighter Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted This is true, parents and teachers are afraid because Mr. Roche looks for revenge. Every time you say a comment that he doesn't like, he gets angry. I agree with the decision that the LSC made. That is the best decision that they made. How can I allow for my kid to go to a school where trying to communicate with the principal is almost impossible because he only give you 2 minutes. There have been a lot of fights. Teachers have found weapons on kids. There is a huge problem with stealing. There is no respect towards teachers, towards him or with students. I have heard how kids say "Here comes the cockroach" when Mr. Roche is around them and even next to them and he doesn't do anything. He pretends that he didn't hear anything. How can I trust him if students don't even respect him. As a parent I can say a lot of things. The school was in good shape when it was passed down to him, but now it's chaos. Parents that are saying good things about Mr. Roche, don't know what's going on, because they never took the time to attend one of the many LSC meetings. I've been in those meetings and trust me it amazes me all of the things I heard.

Wed Feb 6, 2008 at 9:52 PMBy: bip Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Is an insighter an insider with insight?

Thanks for providing some specifics. This makes this affair less baffling. I am shocked at the student misbehavior you report.

Wed Feb 6, 2008 at 10:15 PMBy: Dennis Frank Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Anecdotal and supremely exaggerated, Mr. Insighter. The school and the community as a whole are pretty darn safe. Have a talk with Mr. Willis in security, he'll give you the lowdown.
This is not a "Blackbord Jungle" (Glenn Ford, Sidney Poitier, Vic Morrow, 1955--good film, rent it on DVD).
But it makes for good hysteria and scapegoating of Erin Roche, which you spent a lot of time with your...posts.

That school is run like a well-oiled machine, its actually calm and quite most of the time. I invite anybody to take a tour and have a look.

Wed Feb 6, 2008 at 10:31 PMBy: Mr. Insighter Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Mr. Frank,

First of all this is not a movie thread. This is about modern times and school, not movies from the 50's. Don't take it personally, but how long have you been at this school? This is not a well-oiled machine. Four years ago it WAS a well-oiled machine, not anymore. I am not exaggerating at all, more specifically, did you see the fight that was going on right in front of Mr. Roche today at the end of the school day? It was two girls fighting and two parents had to separate them, you call this calm and "quite"? There is not a blinder person than the one that doesn't want to see.

Thu Feb 7, 2008 at 12:40 AMBy: Mr. Witness Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Hi I just want to say that everything of what Mr. Insighter is saying is true, I personally experienced what is going on in this school, and truthfully Mr. Roche's leadership is very low, and I've been a leader a few times myself, I've experienced mistakes and I had to correct them, and I've been successful at the end. Mr. Roche doesn't accept any criticism to his work, because "he thinks" he is right. Someone who is blind, (Mr Roche), is someone who doesn't want to learn from his own mistakes, he is also someone who doesn't want to look for a better future, he's only worried about his own future, not the school's.

Thu Feb 7, 2008 at 2:46 AMBy: Good for the Gander Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Dear Greg -

Please share your anecdotal evidence with the group.

I am curious as to how it trumps witnessing fights and disrespect that is not addressed,which Mr. Frank also called anecdotal.

Thu Feb 7, 2008 at 7:40 AMBy: Greg Janes Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted No one wants to answer my question - what is the plan? How does this make Ravenswood better? In fact, no one answered my question about the actual reason the LSC made its decision. The various concerns stated here, particularly discipline - while valid - are not unfixable by a principal, teachers, and LSC working together. Teachers have to shoulder their responsibility as well. Contract terms that require ongoing discipline training for the principal and teachers could resolve the situation without the destabilizing of the school that a principal search and a new principal would bring. Does this make the school better?
I was one of the parents who questioned our parent representatives about their vote. The LSC members are elected public officials. Asking an elected official why they took the action they did is hardly bullying. It is the responsibility of the elected official to answer questions of their constituents, right? A teacher intervened stating that we parents didn't know the truth, which was precisely my point. What is the big secret? Why couldn’t these elected officials simply state their reasons. Also, if the concerns addressed were so pervasive, why is there such division within the LSC? Finally, if these problems were so pervasive, why were they not raised anywhere in prior evaluations?
My anecdotal evidence is that every time my wife and I have been at school, there is a calm, quiet, positive environment. There has been an influx of parents into the school to volunteer who all report similar circumstances. Additionally, we were told by several older parents that the former principal's discipline was to scream at children and that teachers would regularly manhandle children to achieve "order". From where I sit, that is progress.

Thu Feb 7, 2008 at 7:51 AMBy: Secure Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Secure environment is about everything, as a parent of a 7th grader, I would like to say that Ms. Donovan (former Principal at Ravenswood School) would be shocked, just to see the mess around the school, specially for the kids, sidewalks with a lot of snow, fighting girls, students pushing each other. Mr Roche's lack of discipline is very clear, please open your eyes!

Thu Feb 7, 2008 at 8:49 AMBy: An Insighter Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted To quickly address a few things that have come up in posts:

Mr. Janes- if you think about it, your children, who behave in school and try their best, are the ones who are going to suffer having Mr. Roche as a principal. The chaos created around the students that are consistently behaving, doing their work are being shorted here. The negative attention that these unruly students are causing in the classrooms, instead of being dealt with by Mr. Roche/Pollack/Blahuta, are taking precious learning time away from YOUR children. How is that in the best of interest of any of the students at Ravenswood?

There are also more issues than just the discipline too. It's goes deeper than that. It's the "holier than thou" attitude that Mr. Roche walks around Ravenswood with. Also, I believe Mr. Roche knows why his contract isn't being renewed. I don't believe that those reasons need to be discussed with you, unless of course, your representing him as his attorney. Your voice was listened to when you filled out the "Principal Survey" and fortunately for the teachers and parents that KNOW what's taking place at the school, THEIR voices were also heard. It always seems calm at Ravenswood because teachers don't want parents, like yourself, running back to Mr. Roche saying what you heard. Talking takes place behind closed doors.

Also, Mr. Frank-- Mr. Willis is a joke to the students more than a security guard. He is a 60-something year old man waiting his final years out at Ravenswood to retire. The students know that Mr. Willis isn't going to be able to do anything if there is a security issue that arises. How safe does that make you feel if YOUR children are indeed students at the school? Mr. Willis will also tell you that there ARE issues at Ravenswood. He knows, just as the rest of us do. Some are just more privy to the things that are going on. Did you know about the student that was bullied by some 7th and 8th grade students and was caught between a door and had his leg punctured so seriously that he required stitches? Probably not because nobody was reprimanded and the issue was never addressed. That's the kind of chaos that's taking place. OPEN YOUR EYES!

Thu Feb 7, 2008 at 10:24 AMBy: ah ha Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted ...happening all around the city "The Adolescent Principals"...

Wow. We see that at our schools, too. Adolescent new administrators who don't have the chops. Sad for everyone involved, including the administrators, who should have had sought more experience before taking on top level roles...

Thu Feb 7, 2008 at 10:49 AMBy: Baaaaaaa Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Mr. Frank- Now you're focusing the blame on Miss K? She is on the LSC and representing the teacher community (and parent community since 2 of her children are students at Ravenswood) and because she's bringing to light things that are taking place, she's at fault now for Mr. Roche's actions? Maybe if she were more of a sheep, like yourself, then you wouldn't be trying to slander her name on this blog. I don't believe she is bullying anyone, it sounds to me that you're the one trying to bully people into thinking the same ignorant way you are.

Thu Feb 7, 2008 at 11:19 AMBy: Secure Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Dennis if you think that a few rants in some grades are Ok!, I think you must have a serious problem of discipline yourself at home. To me any school should admit any fights either in or out the school grounds.

Thu Feb 7, 2008 at 11:38 AMBy: Dennis Frank Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted I'm sure the last few rants about the specter of disruptions are valid, to some degree. Kids are have energy, not always for the better good. Is that really a Principal problem, or a larger problem outside the school, I ask you? Is Erin Roche responsible for every mishap?

I guess I am part of the "new school." I wanted to be a part of community that took what is right and wrong with the school, tabled it with EVERYONE (that was interested) in the community, and become a part of something exciting. Yes, with change. Like our friend Obama says, "Yes WE can."

I think this is more of a personnel problem than a sociological one.
However, it became a sociological problem when a very popular art teacher--very loved by the community I might add (and I like her, too!)
--decided to enter into the fray of public policy and politics for her own agenda. Instead of coming up with new modules or following her Principal, she decided to put that time and energy into the art of propaganda. Creating the perception of Us and Them. Bullying faculty.
This will come to light.....

There's was a short guy with a funny mustache in Germany in the '30's who was an artist who entered then into the fray of public policy, for his own gain. I guess he was misdirected, and.....well, you know the rest of that story.

It is a gift, to be an artist. Especially when you inspire people to look at the beauty of our world, or our contradictions. Sometimes this is best put on a canvas, rather than over a decade of LSC meetings.

***
Alexander, put down your laptop and come tonight! Faces are better than fonts. I thank you for your blog, its a lot of soapboxing, but a lot more exciting than Big Media.

Thu Feb 7, 2008 at 3:04 PMBy: demoralized Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted It is sad that all of this energy is being spent on putting each other down instead of talking about what is being done to further the school. I would pull my child out of school if I knew that teachers have checked out for this year and are waiting out the days until a new principal comes to town. All of the 'talk' whether in favor of Roche or not is drawing attention to the school in a bad way. You should be pulling together and working even harder so that a desirable new principal will want to come in and support you. Many parents are wondering if they are at a school that is doomed to fail. How can we go forward if there is such vehement disgust for one another. It is obvious that most of the posters are either parents or teachers - what is your plan to make the school better? or are you just waiting for someone else to come up with a plan because you have given up?

Thu Feb 7, 2008 at 3:15 PMBy: Rebekkah Principal Not Retained is the correct title Bashing the LSC is not going to accomplish anything.

Expecially when most of the people who are doing the
bashing are fans of the principal not because of his work,
but because of the way he treats them and or their children.

Parents whose children are not "having difficulties" usually
are not even involved at the school. It does take everyone
working together to make the progress this school had
when he arrived, but Mr. Roche wants to take credit for
everything like he is in the classroom with the students.


The teachers at Ravenswood are the "real people" educating the
students and a Good / Great Principal would always work with his
teachers. Mr. Roche runs a dictator style building and sometimes
yes, a strong hand is needed, but he did not allow his teachers to
see that he knew how to be fair, or that he cared about the children
especially when he does not even know any of the students by name
unless he likes their parents.

The final proof is in the pudding if he considers himself to have
done a great job, He should move on and not file for arbitration
and just leave on June 30th to get another contract with another school.

Great Principals are in demand in many schools,
they really need someone with Mr. Roche's background.
FINAL THOUGHT - After the bashing the LSC is sure
to get at the meeting tonight,
Perhaps one of the LSC members will want to revisit
the contract vote and somebody will changes their mind
and part of that will be to write an addedum of their issues and
when Mr. Roche turns into Frankenstein. They can get him for
violating his contract. Or maybe at the next school he will learn
his lesson so that does not get voted out every four years where
ever he goes, because he finally realized that he is not a God over
other teachers, parents and their children.

Thu Feb 7, 2008 at 9:52 PMBy: parent and teacher surveys? Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted has anyone seen these parent and teacher surveys besides the LSC members? do we even know when they were administered, or how good participation was?

also, are there minutes of the LSC meetings where the surveys and or mr. roche's performance were discussed, or issues of school violence, faculty relations, or any other communication? or is this all "new"?

-- alexander

Fri Feb 8, 2008 at 2:14 AMBy: concerned parent and educator Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted In a recent press release, Mayor Daley states that he wants parents, taxpayers and community leaders confident in our school system. He states that we must do more day by day to maintain momentum in school improvement. He asks that school leaders make sure the community’s voice is heard. I assure you that none of the mayor's statements hold weight in the context of the Ravenswood Local School Council’s decision. Neighborhood parents believed in public education for their children because of the expertise and vision of Ravenswood Principal Erin Roche. Many of us feel the sting of high property taxes, the majority of which go to fund the schools. We feel strongly that it is our right as citizens, as taxpayers, and as parents to have high performing schools led by visionary administrators. We thought that we had found such a school at Ravenswood. Unfortunately the Local School Council, in a move to protect teachers’ interests over children’s educations voted to not renew his contract. In addition, there does not exist a wealth of experienced instructional leaders and administrators in Chicago. We have at the helm of Ravenswood a man with management and budgeting skills who also knows and has practiced 'best practice' instruction (research based instruction-i.e. instruction that has been shown to have a positive impact on student learning). It is not often that one finds an administrator who possesses these necessary traits for leadership within CPS. What I see happening here is a community’s voice being ignored, good practices and good educators being marginalized while the rank and file of the Chicago Teachers’ Union manipulates a gullible council into preserving the status quo. Supposedly we are to follow due process and wait for the decision of an independent arbitrator. There has not been one case in 20 years in which an arbitrator found in favor of the principal. What are we as parents to do when an uninformed and manipulated Local School Council impedes the ability of families in the community to send their children to the best schools possible? This action will have farther reaching repercussions than denying a qualified and excellent administrator a job. This action is giving many parents cause for thinking that perhaps Chicago Public Schools are NOT a viable option for our children. And might I add that the rambling and semi-incoherent ramblings of the teachers who have posted here only serve to underscore that point. I have spent whole days at Ravenswood school very frequently and have not seen the supposed incidents which they allege. And if discipline is that bad, why did these same teachers refuse to attend workshops that their principal offered them on positive and constructive discipline in the classroom. Finally, in regards to the parent and community surveys Mr. Alexander--75% of the parents voted to retain Mr. Roche. From where I stand, principals and teachers work for the parents. We are the stakeholders, our children are their clients. The council chose to ignore the wishes of the larger community and based their votes on hearsay, sour grapes and unfounded allegations.

Fri Feb 8, 2008 at 7:32 AMBy: joe Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Just think of all the qualified principal candidates that are out there that could be in our schools but yet they can't because they choose to live in the suburbs. Drop the residency joke and you will open yourself up to hundreds of qualified leaders!

Fri Feb 8, 2008 at 9:44 AMBy: b Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted I am a longtime resident of Ravenswood neighborhood and I count this school among the small number of public school options that I will consider for my preschool aged child.

Enrollment at Ravenswood was/ has been declining, as it has been in many gentrifying neighborhood schools. That is a fact. It is also a fact that our neighborhood schools must and should attract and retain middle class students. It is not an either or choice between low income and middle/upper middle income students. Nor should it be. Many of the middle class parents who can afford other choices for their children, will almost certainly tell you that they want their kids in a school with a diverse ethnic and socio economic environment. In fact, several posters have mentioned this in their comments. Mr. Roche deserves much of the credit for attracting this new group of parents into the school. Prior to his arrival, Ravenswood was a wonderful and strong neighborhood school with declining enrollments. Most of the students did not come from the immediate attendance boundary of the school. Mr. Roche's tenure brought with it the tuition pre-k program and other programs designed to bring in those middle class parents. That is a good thing. He deserves praise for accomplishing that. Clearly though, this period of change was not handled well across the board. Over the last several years, I have heard numerous negative comments attesting to this fact. Many lower income and hispanic parents have told me that there have been increasing incidents of behavior problems. Context is important here. It doesn't put Ravenswood Elementary on par with Clemente HS, it just mean that there is a perception that things were not as held together as they used to be. Those same parents have told me that they felt pushed aside by Mr. Roche-that he wasn't friendly to anyone. They have also reported that the teachers were not happy.

I don't have a horse in this race, and I maintain an open mind, but this is what I have observed over the last 3.5 years. So, when I read the posts about the "manipulated" LSC parents, it really offends me. People of good conscience should examine their own assumptions about why they believe this group of parents is not capable of making an independent and informed judgement.

Everyone needs to take a deep breath and figure out how to move forward. Would it be in the best interests of the students for Mr. Roche to stay? I think not. It would almost certainly lead to an exodus of teachers-good teachers-and if he hasn't been able to navigate these tricky political waters thus far, it doesn't seem reasonable to assume that he will spontaneously develop the skill set to heal the wounds and bring everyone back together. Waters School-at Wilson and Campbell-has experienced many of the same demographic shifts along the same time lines and they seem to have done so without the strife and drama. It is possible to make these changes successfully.

New parents you need to involve yourselves in the Principal selection process and the LSC. You need to consider the needs of the whole school community and accept the fact that not everyone had a positive experience with Mr. Roche. If you aren't willing to do this, then your "commitment" to this school wasn't very deep in the first place and you should leave it to those who are willing to roll up their sleeves and do the heavy lifting.

Teachers don't roll back on Mr. Roche's accomplishments. Our neighborhood schools should be committed to providing a good public education for all students in the neighborhood.

Fri Feb 8, 2008 at 11:03 AMBy: alexander 2 paths forward following up on some of the reflective posts above, it occurs to me that there are at least two constructive directions that things could go, and at least one obviously destructive one.

the most obviously destructive option is for the dismayed and surprised parents, who feel so frustrated and embarrassed right now, to take their support and their kids and go somewhere else.

the constructive options -- easier said than done -- are either to engage with the current LSC and disgruntled parents and teachers towards a solution that addresses everyone's needs, or to run their own slate in the upcoming LSC elections and "take back" the school and possibly rehire roche.

i've talked to a few parents since last night's meeting, and hope to talk to more. i've heard about but not seen the school-made surveys, which seem to show strong parental support and strong faculty concerns from the folks who filled out the surveys.

Fri Feb 8, 2008 at 11:08 AMBy: surveys Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Regarding the demographic information in the parent survey. There are two parent survey reports on the CPS REA website under the school profile (http://research.cps.k12.il.us/resweb/SchoolProfile?unit=5550).

There is the "Parent Report" on the front page.

Under the "Other" tab you will find the "Parent Survey Principal's Report". You can review the demographic information in this latter report.

Do you believe a 60% positive on a survey of only 30% is meaningful?

Could the level of parent response (30%) say anything about principal leadership?

Fri Feb 8, 2008 at 11:30 AMBy: Dennis Frank Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Alexander--

Thanks for the clear and cogent overview of the crisis at WBEZ.
And for you persistence in getting all the data and bridging all concerns.

Fri Feb 8, 2008 at 12:28 PMBy: to surveys Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted surveys:
"Do you believe a 60% positive on a survey of only 30% is meaningful?"
- No more so than an LSC whose parental representation was determined by 20 votes. A mistake that won't be repeated.

You pretty much had to dig to get to the "Parent Survey Principal's Report". What was the point of your mentioning the higher favorable rating (82%) among white parents than, say, hispanic parents (58%)? Is that what this is all about to you? Race? Disappointing. I thought this was about education.

Fri Feb 8, 2008 at 2:13 PMBy: Survey Purpose Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Survey's are to feed-back. Very seldom are they used to actually reflect
that the information is vital. Even the surveys that CPS used to report
to schools the responses from parents was fudged considering how many
schools do not have meaningful parental involvement.

Fri Feb 8, 2008 at 2:58 PMBy: Disappointed is correct in many ways. Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted TO DISAPPOINTED:

Yes you are correct , but one seldom gets to see the whole picture
and realize that the TRUTH IS A DEFENSE when you know what the
truth is and in this case the process gets so bastardized by those
who do not have your heart that perhaps you need to support that
the school get conflict resolution training. It might help.

Thanks for having a heart for the entire tawdry affair of the Ravenswood
LSC which includes the Principal.

Fri Feb 8, 2008 at 3:38 PMBy: parent Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted I'm not sure if those posting who are clearly teachers are the same people who were willing to take the microphone at last night's meeting, but for the record, thanks to those teachers for having the guts to at least speak. Your comments were certainly taken seriously. Take off your teacher's hat for one minute and put on a Ravenswood parent hat (some already wear both I realize). A blogger at one point commended Miss Kitty for shedding light on the problems allegedly created by Roche by ousting Roche. Shedding light? How? By putting her name along with fellow LSC members on consistent highly favorable and then favorable or “meets expectations” principal evaluations (the last being delivered to Roche 20 minutes before axing him)? Few people in that room last night, least of whom Mr. Roche, took kindly to such an ambush. Another poster wrote this week, presumably to us parents – “You don’t know what goes on behind closed doors here.” No kidding! That’s why we depend on a constructive evaluation of our principal and an actively attended LSC to take those issues into consideration and make these big decisions. Keep in mind too these are evaluations of a principal hired unanimously by a panel that included the long-serving Miss Kitty and Mr. Hart, who presumably arduously reviewed the credentials of and interviewed Roche. The LSC, including its teacher reps, have not filed any meeting minutes over several months so that parents and other interested parties can figure out just what might have gone on here. A Freedom of Information Act violation? Yet, the LSC can easily site rules to its advantage, like not being able to field any tough questions pending Roche’s appeal. Those who say, get over it, move on and think of the future for our school are correct. But it’s hard to be positive just yet when you have little to no trust in the system that hired and fired Mr. Roche. Right now, for me, this is as much about how this happened as why it happened. Forgive me, but it’s hard for those us working in the private sector or probably most any other organization under the sun (not to mention in our roles as parents and taxpayers) to get our brains wrapped around this bizarre world scenario. A scenario in which the employees hire/fire their boss; the reasons for that firing are under lock and key for days, stretching into weeks; that firing followed a string of positive evaluations, and a scenario in which the rank and file employees (that’s you teachers, sorry) take their boss’s push for improvement and parental support of his vision not as a professional challenge but as a criticism of their abilities. I hope to have an open mind about the future of our school, with or without Roche, once I regain confidence in those making decisions on my daughter’s behalf.

Fri Feb 8, 2008 at 4:26 PMBy: sad Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted You know the mean spirited nature of so many of these comments by parents, has me seriously wondering about my neighbors.

"Ravenswood's so-called community deserves their next principal -- good luck with that hire! And Erin deserves a better opportunity - good luck with your next position!"

The above comment seems particularly sad. So, if her kid isn't at the school anymore too bad for the 500 plus who remain. This philosophy of "me first" says so much about what is wrong with our city, public school system, and probably goes a long way towards explaining what lies at the heart of this whole sad story.

Fri Feb 8, 2008 at 5:27 PMBy: Kristin Lotane Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted It should all be me and mine first where your children are concerned. If anyone ever questions any parent for wanting to taking their child(ren) out of the poisoned evironment of Ravenswood then I wonder what their agenda is?

Fri Feb 8, 2008 at 6:28 PMBy: Dennis Frank Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Its heartbreaking that the parents are being hard on one another here. I think it is the parents that really make that school. I've only been there a year (actually 2, if you count attending early meetings). I witness a great vibe with all the parents.

I'm fixated on the personnel problem at Ravenswood. The world operates in choatic and ways--I accept that. Its not the parents fault that a couple of shifty backstabbers took advantage of some sloppy timing at the LSC. We should take it easy on other parents, and ourselves.

Screw 'em! They got our principal, but we're taking back our school in March!

Our sons and daughters don't deserve to navigate through a school of toxicity and dysfunction, so lets get the rats!

Fri Feb 8, 2008 at 7:34 PMBy: naive i guess Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted I wonder what the "real reason" is that so many posters refer to?
I also wonder what the "or else" threat to other teachers is? Or else we won't sit by you in the teachers lounge, or else you won't be invited to my new year's eve party. What exactly is the big conspiracy?

Fri Feb 8, 2008 at 8:52 PMBy: Dennis Frank Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted true dat, dear naive.

I'm setting up a sister-blog for incoming relevant documents, minutes, evaluations, and surely video.

I'll leave the commentary to Alexander. He's the man.

Look for that next week, after everyone takes a much-needed break. I only have a campaign button and song for now, but
things should get spicy soon with REAL data. Enjoy!
http://goodbyekittygoodbye.blogspot.com/

Fri Feb 8, 2008 at 9:53 PMBy: 007 Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted The only way the LSC members who voted NO can justify their actions is to continue to villanize Mr. Roche or hold on to the myth that there is a truth here that only they can see. The truth is held collectively by a school community. Sometimes it can be confusing and difficult to understand. The very act of asserting that the majority that you represent is wrong because only you can see the truth with clarity is self-serving at best. The arrogance that holds the terrible hidden truth belittles the intelligence of the majority who respectfully disagree. It is likely that the descion was grounded in individuals hurt feelings at the expense of the whole school. Would those same LSC members who voted NO, still make the same descision today, understanding the terrible pain most must feel within the Ravenswood community? Did they think how the children would feel?

It is likely that all principals are flawed and make mistakes. I have not met one who isn't a person too. I hope the critics who once believed in Erin and now find him to be terriblly flawed, hold themselves to the same standard of excellence. Did you ever make mistakes as a teacher as a parents or as a person? And what was the solution? What is your solution for Ravenswood? The onus is on those who voted NO.

To the Joe post, the residency requirements are not holding back the brilliant principals at the city limits who are waiting to get in. Most suburban principals likely wonder how something as absurd as an LSC could ever exist and like the suburbs. The ability for 2 members to miss virtually all meetings and then vote NO (or even Yes), will be another arguement to drop the model. What type of principal would want to serve this type of LSC, one that one year sets an exceeds in evaluating Erin, the next year meets and then fires him a day later? As an LSC, you will likely attract the type of leader who is equally fical, one that has no patience for imperfection. Your inabilty to collectively overcome conflicts as adults, hurts the very children you serve. It is in the moment of crisis that children will look and learn. Will they see adults who are leaders or adults who are caught up in hurt feelings?

Fri Feb 8, 2008 at 11:39 PMBy: Poor Dennis Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Dennis, what's up with the age-ism directed towards you on this board? Ripping on your for "you bet your bippy"? (I knew that one from drinking Mickey's back in college...in the early 90s) Mentioning movies from the 50's? (you couldn't tie this debacle in with Strange Wilderness or something?) Suggesting you pretend to be your kid's age (ok, that'd be creepy--hope that one's just...I don't know...made up).
You must have gray hair. Is that it, whippersnappers of the board?

Sat Feb 9, 2008 at 11:56 AMBy: speak on it Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted To concerned about new principal hire, you are soooo right. Perhaps this is a real opportunity for Ravenswood to move forward with ALL stakeholders represented and feeling confident about their choices. Please also remember that if stakeholders can not reach a point of agreement on new principal hire, the board will appoint one for you. Chances are even more likely that people will be disappointed by that outcome.

I believe that everyone involved here probably wants the same thing for this school. Teachers and parents want a school that is welcoming place where students will be safe and part of a dynamic learning environment. Unforunately, there isn't a clear idea about how to achieve those goals.

Neighborhood parents, please remember that this issue doesn't have to be framed in "us vs. them" terms, see Dennis Rich. There are bad actors all over this problem, but the question is how to move forward in a positive way. No one has the market cornered on truth here and objective people know that there is some truth to most everything that has been posted on this blog.

Try as I might, I can not understand why it so impossible for some people to believe that those involved with the decision not to renew the contract, had good reasons and good intentions. Why does speaking up for one group of students-kids that you have known since Kindergarten-watched grow up-known their familes-why does that have to be characterized in negative terms? Don't you wnat teachers who have the strength of their convictions teaching your kids? What if the politics here were upside down-wouldn't you want these same teachers to represent your issues and interests?

Teachers and principal selection parents. It would seem that you really missed the boat on reaching out to "new" parents. Perhaps it was intentional. Perhaps not. So, here's your chance to make it right. Every person on that selection committee should take this work very seriously. All the stakeholders should be represented. Teachers and Parents on both sides of the issue. If this doesn't happen, then it will certainly serve as proof that good intentions were not the motivation here. It will most likely drag this problem out further. It might mean that lots of parents and teachers will leave. But more than anything else, it will make for a further weakening of a formerly good school.

Sat Feb 9, 2008 at 1:30 PMBy: concerned parent Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted This is very true. We have to pull together and have a united front moving forward. If all of the negative comments continue, we will have families running from Ravenswood instead of seeking it out. If that happens and the school only has enough numbers to fill one kindergarten class and one first grade class, it doesn't matter how many upper graders stay, the school will lose huge amounts of money that it can't afford to give up.

All of the bad attitudes are going to impact the interest in the school and scare away parents. If we are so sure that we can maintain a quality education for all of our children, we need to keep pushing on this front so that we don't risk losing the school to low enrollment! Lots of schools are closing throughout the city due to changing demographics of their neighborhoods.

Sat Feb 9, 2008 at 3:07 PMBy: C&I Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted For curricular issues that the new principal should be faced with arm yourself with:

http://illinoisloop.org/math.html

Sat Feb 9, 2008 at 4:36 PMBy: Kugler - Get it Done Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted To concerned about principal hire

I do not want to discourage you but the resumes we screened were pretty bad. 50% we discounted right off the bat. and as i stated earlier the others were form closing schools, closed schools, or admins jumping from charters to cps. the worst thing about it is the principal you all just let go will have no problem getting a better position if he so desires.

We have had six principals in 8 years. From what i have seen you are going to be set back at least a year if you are lucky to find someone fast and start planning for next year ASAP, before school lets out. So the new admin can assess the needs of the school and formulate a plan of their own for improvement. If it happens during the summer there is going to be lots to issues in sept.

Your best bet is to go in house so there is no big upheaval and changes. Not saying that change is bad but in a school setting there needs to be time to see and adjust to what is going on to make the best decisions without causing disruption to instruction.

Just take for example us teachers when we get evaluated for two 45 minute period out of one year of instruction without the evaluator taking into account anything special or out of the ordinary that might be happening. No fair.

Same for an administrator. Is it fair top put someone in a position without being able to assess the school culture and needs and then make personnel and curricular decisions?

Again do not rush it but do not play around either.

Sat Feb 9, 2008 at 6:04 PMBy: Marc Dean Millot Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted This posting touches the tip of the iceberg on the efficacy of many nonprofit school improvement providers. In a way it's an extension of that Garrison Keilor article on public education so many nice people seem to dislike. To the "nice people... failing these kids" nonprofits are often the preferred provider. And like the nice people, substitute MBA for Phd and their "grand poobahs... stand up and blow... speak with great confidence about theories of teaching, and considering the test results... ought to be thrown out..."

Alexander, you need to write more about the need to bring this issue to the fore.

There's much more hammering that needs to be done on the the importance of determining the objective value added by the new philanthropy and their investees. Tax free status is no excuse for the lack of performance reviews - even at a subsidized price, and even for services that are provided free to an education agency. If these services were subjected to NCLB's SBR requirement, many of these nonprofit groups have even less research that Bob Slavin and others (including yours truly) said of the publishers that won the Reading First market.

It's not all nonprofits or all of the New Philanthropy's nonprofits, but it's most of the New Philanthropy's nonprofits. If I am incorrect, the nonprofit and foundation managers and media relations staffs should post all the program evaluations - third party or internal - in a comment below. Alternativel, they might explain why evaluations havent been done, and why they are loathe to open up their books to researchers and reporters.

Given the whole (Social) "Return on Investment " rhetoric espoused as a justification for the New Philanthropy's existence and its grant making strategy, even one unevaluated investment is unacceptable.

Readers interested in more on the topic might go here

Posted by: Marc DeanMillot |

Sat Feb 9, 2008 at 6:33 PMBy: couldn't disagree more Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Kugler,

If this school hires someone from within-it will most likely be one of the teacher leaders who mobilized to get the principal out in the first place. Under a different set of circumstances, in house would definitely be preferable, but in this case it will just cast a LONG shadow of doubt as to why the principal was removed in the first place. Also, involving all the stakeholders doesn't mean having a selection committee of 100, it does mean that these folks should make sure the process is as transparent as possible and allows for input.

Finally, if Designs for Change will stay on and advise this group, they should make it their business to see to it that stakeholder input and transparency happen.

Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 8:42 AMBy: Kristin Lotane Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Imploring all to use their real names on these posts. How can we have an open dialogue at school if you can’t even give us your name here? Use just your first name if you like but it seems really creepy that people won’t give their name.

I understand the desire to move forward in a positive way but also feel it is important to be realistic about what is going on for my children and all the children at Ravenswood.

This board has been enlightening because it has at least given me some reasons for why Mr. Roche’s contract was not renewed. So let’s look at the problems that have been raised and then decide how (if) the real problems can be addressed.

1. Discipline/respect/safety – A huge issues and one that needs to be addressed at numerous levels. If this was being underreported than we have no way to even begin to know the extent of problem.
2. Teacher feeling lack of respect – Definitely an issues and raises the sub-issue of whether these teacher are justified in this feeling. (Please understand that I am NOT saying that teachers are not worthy of respect, just suggesting perhaps there are SOME teachers that do not earn the respect)
3. Curriculum – Lack of reference to the curriculum and student improvements in this conversation. I really appreciated Ms. Kitty’s insight regarding interpretation of test scores at the end of the LSC meeting. More of this discussion needs to happen in reference to the decision that was made and the path forward.
4. LSC existence and process – I’m willing to admit this may be my own issue but it seems worthy of examination since so much of the frustration, I and other parents felt was not feeling like we did not understand what happened and how it could happen. By stacking the deck with people who think like me - I still don’t think the LSC is a good idea.

Add your own issues here!

Seriously, if you can’t have an open dialogue about the problems then there is absolutely no chance of going forward positively.

All public schools in Chicago have problems. If we try to sweep this under the rug and bring out our cheerleader outfits then we risk missing a tremendous opportunity for real change.

Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 11:16 AMBy: Kristin Lotane Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Just a few points of clarification since my name is here. I like and respect Ms. Kitty - a lot. I think she IS a great teacher.

I don't dislike any of the members of the LSC. The ones I know - I like a lot and the others I don't even know.

I understand why the LSCs were created to address a feeling of disempowerment but that doesn't mean that they work as intended.

Lastly, I support the vast majority of teachers that I know at Ravenswood but know from my own experience in business that workers who complain the loudest (especially when they see the opening) are the ones who are being called out.

I agree that Ravenswood has a great base from which to build. I agree this is a good opportunity. I just (reasonably) question if the system of school administration is a bigger problem than any one school can address (overcome).

P.S. I used to do work in the early 90s at the Board of Ed on Pershing Road. We called the people who worked there "the dinosaurs" and the stories I could tell you would curl your hair!

Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 12:41 PMBy: Ser Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted I just want to congratulate to all the parents that are moving forward looking for the future Principal at Ravenswood School, (except for Mr. Dennis Frank, who seems to live in the past with his movies). I invite you to join to the LSC meetings, but to the other meetings too: bilingual and NCLB (No Child Left Behind), are important, there is where you can get an idea of what the school is looking for your sons or daughters. Second cup of coffee it was just an invention of Mr. Roche (and in a certain way is kind of elitist), but if you have time for that, why you don't for the others?
Let's all of us move forward in the same direction, I heard theres going to be parents of different levels to form the committee, teachers and community. Step in, I'm going to do it, and I think (Or at least I'm going to try) to do my part.

Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 8:25 PMBy: Dennis Frank Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted I'm all for moving forward, esp. in regard to being involved on the Principal Selection Committee and the LSC elections. The NCLB and training for Title 1 training doesn't interest me in the least. (Yawn).

(see the scribbled handout given to us at the Feb. 7th meeting, without explaination or discussion, WTF?!)

Moving forward also is about remembering what just happened, which, as one parent spoke about on the 7th, was nothing short of Kafkaesque. The teacher reps and the NO voters should be held accountable for their actions unless they have a credible statement to make to their constituents. They owe us that much, instead of their stoicism and having been lawyered. The dialogue begins with them.

I am through with the handwringing and second guessing. This crisis coalesces the recent past with the present. Just because the vote is done and we're moving forward, doesn't mean we can't do it differently with better LSC members--both Parent and Teacher Reps.

I implore the faculty at Ravenswood Elementary to come up with some better candidates than Kitty and Tim. I know its a lot of hard volunteer work, but you ALL are equally responsible for helping BRIDGE this process positively. That is most of this problem--you let a couple of your peers make a big, rash move without thinking of the implications and complications ahead of this ousting. This thing landed like an A-bomb to a lot of families. Just a thought. I mean, other faculty CAN run for the LSC besides these two.

Others and myself have said it before: reveal your names. As only one parent of many concerned, the dialogue begins now and at the meetings. We can make this productive.
What are you afraid of?

Keep up the slams on my references to movies, Laugh-In, and age-ism. Some levity to all this is welcome, esp. when the anonymous can be so petty. I'll try to give you some more movie references if you want: Right now I would say we are somewhere between "Crash" (2004) and "Notes on a Scandal" (2006). Hope those movies are not to dated for your tastes.

BTW, has anybody checked out the stats of all these so-called disapline problems? Alexander's got a data page growing at
http://www.catalyst-chicago.org/RUSSO/index.php/entry/527/Reporting_Ravenswood

Doesn't look like the gate keepers don't have a cogent argument anymore. Looks like all the nay-sayers have left is the fact that they didn't like Erin's positive, non-aggressive reform initiatives.

Look that up in your Funk and Wagnalls!

Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 12:38 AMBy: Courtney Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted The CockaRoche is out. He is a Bully, he boders on being a white racist against people of color and he concentrates way too much attention to the FOR. He doesn't respect seasoned teachers because we know too much and can see through his BS. He is concerned only about himself. Best recommendation I can make is that he take his progressive ass to the schools in Englewood where they need white new leaders and implement his progressive out of the sand box tricks to help that community out, they need new leaders like him up on the south side. His 3 years at Ravenswood built his resume so he can do wonders in devasted communities, Mr. Duncan are you lisetening, those schools you just closed down need a person like Mr. CockaRoche, send him to Copernicus School or even better yet Fulton School, he can practice his diversity and maybe recruit students from Ravenswood Area to follow him to a diverse community and school, they sure can use his help at those schools on the South Side.

Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 8:53 AMBy: Avery Szjen Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Courtney-
Are you Avery Szjen, the principal of Bellow High School? Both your comments and his are hoaxes, right?

Try actually looking at attendance and achievement from 2002 to the present to articulate a counter argument that Roche had no effect. Without the "elitists" who can come from out of the district, attendance would be down much further meaning that there would be 1 kindergarten and 1 first grade class with those numbers following up to the upper grades. The tide turned with Roche's outreach to the neighbors and the wider community. Many teacher should thank Erin for their jobs at Ravenswood. Without the recruiting, those jobs would be gone. Going from 54% ISAT passage in reading in 2002 to 69.8% in 2007 shows improvement. Doesn't it? Your arguments just fade way.

Bully? My boss is a bully too. He makes me work hard everyday and calls me out when I don't. Quite the bully.

Courtney - you seem like just the person to make a difference in those Englewood schools. I'll work a trade - Fulton school get you and we get Roche. Seems fair.

Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 9:50 AMBy: Kristin Lotane Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted My point exactly. Who are these parents who have all this extra time to become experts in the fields of funding, sociology, curriculum, discipline, etc. and are willing to give there time for free? Abolish the LSCs - they have outlived their usfulness. Please give us real administrators who can choose a path and stick with it. We may not like it but this boat (CPS) needs a captain!

Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 10:38 AMBy: Ravenswood resident Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Dennis Frank,

You are a rabble rouser and sound as venomous as the teacher's you are constantly critiquing on this blog. Seriously, move past the name calling/name dropping and start working on what's going to be best for the future of Ravenswood. Trying to pin all of the the blame on Mr. Hart and Ms. Kitty isn't productive and really makes your motives seem malicious.

Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 11:47 AMBy: it isn't the neighborhoods fault Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Absolutely, the Title 1 issue is out there. The fact that children may choose to come to the school from out of district and may not qualify for Title 1 doesn't really jeopardize the school's title 1 funding. The school needs to boost enrollment and get to the magic 500 number to get the CPS funding secured and it needs to continue to serve neighborhood children that fall under Title 1 guidelines. Assuming that every parent wants the best education for their child, EVERYONE needs to come together and make Ravenswood the best school possible to preserve all funding from all ends. The school is going to lose money regardless because the neighborhood is changing, so why not reach out to the FORS community who may have extra time on their hands to write grants and do fundraising to keep money coming into the school. Lots of schools have 'friends of' groups to battle the funding cuts systemwide.

Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 11:59 AMBy: seasoned teacher Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Ravenswood is just an example of the trends that our occurring in Chicago. It's not a CPS issue, it's a Chicago trend.

No way, could Roche bring that attitude to the Englewood, South Shore or Roseland communities. He'll resign by sundown.

Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 12:07 PMBy: take the time Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted to read the article linked over at "Echoes of Ravenswood" from Atlantic.com entitled "Tales out of School: How a pushy Type A mother stopped reading Jonathan Kozol and learned to love the public schools". Funny, insightful, hopeful and honest.

excerpt from it:
"The bad news in our most cosmopolitan and vibrant cities is that many middle-class people can no longer afford to live in “middle-class” school districts. The good news, if my experience is any indication, is that this could drive middle-class white children back into local poor brown schools, and they would come with parents armed with higher educations, the Internet, fiercely lofty expectations, and an ability to read and (at least vaguely) understand federal legislation. What happens to poor public schools when, God forbid, pushy middle-class, Type A, do-it-yourself PTA mothers become involved and agitate to lift up the boats, not just of their own children but, perforce, of their children’s disadvantaged classmates as well?"

Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 8:14 PMBy: Ravenswood mom Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Ravenswood is my neighborhood school. In what way am I an "outsider"? Because of my race? Because of my income level? Because of my education history? Please be specific. I would like you to clarify your terms.

Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 9:10 PMBy: I'll address it here too Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted I agree with you, ns for nk, that every child should have a good neighborhood school, and I completely agree with you on all parents lobbying for school funding reform, but your "the people in the neighborhood who are writing the big tax checks have a right to...access and input" is kind of creepy/elitist--of course the kids in the $800K homes have a right to attend their neighborhood school, but they have as many rights (and equal input) as the kids (and the families with siblings of those kids) who were enrolled back when those kids in the $800k homes would MAYBE play on their playground on a Saturday afternoon but wouldn't dream of attending.

And as other threads/articles/posters have mentioned, along with upper/middle class involvement comes pressure for schools to "do better" (like at Blaine) and that's not a bad thing. What's a bad thing is to have things like "gifted programs" (or such) pop up in the neighborhood schools that somehow only have the PTA/Friends of members kids admitted, and when those classes somehow get the nicer rooms, the newer books, the better equipment. Or when special programs run after school until 4, but working parents need their kids at a park district, open-til-6 after school program, eliminating their kids' participation.

And that "extra money" that comes with lower income kids doesn't exactly wind up in the faculty's or administration's pockets.

So I know money talks. But no one's should talk louder because they decided to be a lawyer rather than a teacher. And a public school should have the public's interests in mind, not just the biggest contributors.

(Blaine does, by the way, have an awesome woman pushing for everyone's involvement in school funding reform--props to DS)

Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 12:37 AMBy: The rabble has already been roused Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted As new parents in the Ravenswood community, the Erin Roche dismissal and subsequent struggle pitting the tenured teachers and the LSC vs. the new teachers (yes, there are some teachers there who are fiercely loyal to Mr. Roche) and the Friends of Ravenswood School have proven to be sad, eye-opening events. You'd better believe that many of us are very surprised and angry over this. I'm angry at the decision, and having done a lot of research before enrolling my child at Ravenswood, I know that Ravenswood is losing a good principal. Whether or not they'll be able to find another good principal is far from certain.

And, by the way, 'Courtney', comments like "CockaRoche" and "ass" are completely inappropriate, juvenile, and out of line in this forum. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Change is hard. People resist change almost subconsciously. According to the facts (test scores, enrollment, etc.) prior to Mr. Roche's arrival, Ravenswood school was certainly not the best national example of "good teachers" and "excellent teaching" (to quote my friend Courtney). No doubt that there were (and are) many very good teachers there, doing the amazing things that teachers do and don't get paid enough for. But test scores were unacceptably low, attendance was very low, and parents who had a choice in schools weren't choosing Ravenswood (note to everyone: local parents choosing not to send their kids to Ravenswood was not a good thing). You can have a nice ship and some really great oarsmen and still travel in circles without a good captain. Based on some tired and uninspired comments posted here, it is obvious that some of the long time teachers were fine with that mediocrity. Mr. Roche's attempts to motivate them to higher achievement (which, by the way, benefits the long-time students as much as anyone. The thinly-veiled racism behind the labels "outsider" and "Yuppie" used here are misguided and revealing) obviously inspired a backlash. This is all fairly simple to understand.

The fear and resentment which the established parents and teachers are exhibiting toward the influx of the newer parents is sad, wrong, and unwarranted, but alas it, too, is understandable. I'll wager that during the falling enrollment years with the flat and dropping test scores these same teachers were shaking their heads and lamenting the lack of parental involvement. That's a tired and easy scapegoat that they're not going to have anymore.

Funding? There is a large trend that Mr. Roche helped to bring about in terms of rapidly increasing enrollment these past couple of years, and the 500 student mark is now achievable. Also, as is stated here, Mr. Roche helped jumpstart the Friends of Ravenswood School, which has provided a large amount of new funding which will continue to grow if FORS doesn't implode due to this decision. If Mr. Roche had been allowed to stay on, the funding balance would have tipped in favor of the future and in favor of progress, and all students would have benefitted. I hope that can still be achieved.

Right now FORS is being demonized by the established entities at Ravenswood. That has to stop, because there's not a good school in this city right now that doesn't have an active parents association such as FORS. You're going to need us. And FORS is going to need the good teachers we have at Ravenswood, so please let's keep this civil. We have to work together. The increased presence and involvement of FORS is clearly one of the reasons that the LSC voted not to retain Erin Roche. That seems misguided to me. I urge members of FORS to make an all-out effort to get candidates on the LSC as soon as possible. But I also urge the FORS parents to respect and reach out to the teachers at Ravenswood, despite this vote which we vehemently disagree with, to chart a course for continued improvement for the school. Obviously Mr. Roche earned some enemies, and I'm trying to respect some of the reasoning behind that, hard as it may be.

The biggest disappointment here is that many of us were really excited to be a part of the Ravenswood School community, and eager to help the school to improve on behalf of all students. We didn't realize that some entrenched entities think everything at the school (low enrollment, mediocre test scores, and an aging infrastructure which required a constant struggle for $'s to keep up) was fine and that our talk of improvements would be taken as an insult or a challenge. And we didn't realize how much some established parents would see us as a threat, and view us through a lens of resentment while at the very same time we were excited to be enrolling our children in a school where not every child looked the same, thought the same, and came from one sliver of world culture.

There are some very good teachers at Ravenswood School. There is also a very good principal there named Erin Roche who will likely soon be leaving. That's not a good thing. And so my question for the LSC and the teachers of Ravenswood School is: what kind of principal do you think you're going to hire going forward? Seriously. If we don't get a principal with new ideas who is going to push for better teaching, better test scores, more parental involvement, better facilities, better funding, etc., then we're definitely going backward into the failed CPS of the 1980's. Is that really what you want? Your MOST important requirements are a principal who speaks fluent Spanish and schmoozes you with friendly compliments each day? Are you kidding???? Please think this through carefully.

*incidentally, I was a proponent of being open with names here until I read the comments by an actual teacher at the school. Based on those ridiculously juvenile comments, I sincerely fear backlash and reprisal against my child. So my apologies on the pen name.*

Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 8:05 AMBy: counter counter Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Being counter and courtney-
Good is the enemy of great. Please do not delude yourself into believing you're great. The parents want great not good. If that task is too hard for you, don't let the door hit you on the way out. Removing the principal will not diminish the push by parents for great. We want great for all students, not just our own. We are not striving for a school that awards students simply for being good. We are striving for a school that challenges students to be great.

Listen to your own comments and you'll hear a bitter teacher playing out the string until retirement. You've quit already. Good luck in your next career.

Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 9:34 AMBy: to rabble Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted You didn't give a damn what happened to children in that neighborhood til you moved in. Those parents and that LSC are making choices for their children. Stop acting like only you have the answers.

Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 10:44 AMBy: To Alexander Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Why don't you put the budget and SIPPAA up on the web site?

Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 11:17 AMBy: Kristin Lotane To Rabble You and yours are the type of person I wish I could be. Your points are coherent and touch me deeply. I KNOW that you have only the best of intentions and I hope that you prevail in your efforts to make Ravenswood a better school for all.

I am so deeply disturbed by the comments of some here that I am more and more convinced that I need to take my kids out of Ravenswood or they will become the targets of retaliation. The strangest thing about this is there seems to be some assumption that Hispanic and "yuppie" interests are drastically different. Silly me, I thought we all just wanted our kids to well educated, safe and happy.

Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 3:38 PMBy: Concerned neighborhood resident Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Would someone please post on this blog the date, time & location for upcoming meetings for LSC, Principal Selection Committee, Friends of Ravenswood - and any other meetings pertinent to the future of the school? Where are these meetings generally announced/posted?
Thanks much!

Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 4:51 PMBy: class conflict in Ravenswood Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted This is a rather amazing discussion. We have seen this same discussion before on this blog. I honestly think this is not an educational discussion at all regarding where Ravenswood School is going, it is a discussion about social and class conflict.

This conflict is becoming more intense as the complete north side of Chicago east of Western Av. north of Chicago Ave and approaching as far south as Foster St gentrifies. The decline in the Hispanic community in particular in these areas has been precipitous in the last 15 years. Ultimately Ravenswood School will become largely white and upper middle class or CPS will close the school down reopen it as something else forcing out the students not living in the attendance area. The families living in the $800,000 homes are probably paying between $6,500 and $8,000 in property taxes in the Ravenswood School intake area, if you are going to pay that kind of money you should get a school to go along with it, or at least so the logic would go.

What is pushing this conflict more than the upper middle class home owners are younger families that bought condos and can not sell them and move to the suburbs because of the market conditions. Some of these younger families also are finding themselves in fiscal difficulty due to the ecomic down turn. These younger largely white families also do not have the deep pockets necessary to easily send their children to F W Parker, Latin, the British School, etc. Cathloic Schools for some families are not an option because of religious issues and moderate academic achievement in some of these North Side schools. These families are looking for good schools and are willing to work to create one in their own community, part of the reality of creating a good school is effectively getting rid of teachers used to teaching low performing low income students and those students themselves whose remedial needs drive teaching practices that are unacceptable to middle class families.

We will be seeing similar conflicts at numerous other elementary schools in the future.

Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 6:04 PMBy: Courtney Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted COMMENT DELETED FOR PROFANITY.
REMEMBER, NO PROFANITY, NO PERSONAL ATTACKS.
KEEP RESPONSES ON THE TOPIC AT HAND.

Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 6:23 PMBy: find something better to harrass people about Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted I can't believe that one posting gets censored and Courtney can continue to slander anything and everything positive about this blog. Putting threats out here scare me about what you may threaten children and families with if they don't go along with your temper tantrum. It seemed to me that we were actually taking the conversation someplace productive. You just can't let it go...maybe you should be the one to go.

Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 7:18 PMBy: Dennis=Courtney Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted I think that "Courtney" is actually "Dennis Frank" trying to stir the pot. He/she strikes me as that type.

Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 9:47 PMBy: neighbor Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted How is it the principal's fault if students are vulgar and disrespectful? Is he able to implement "consequences" without parantal backlash? I do not expect a principal to be in charge of a student's character--that's his or her parents' job, and unless Roche is withholding information from the parents, what do you suggest he do to "discipline" these students?

Also, upper-middle class neighborhood parents do not send their kids to Ravenswood school. The ones who are interested are hard working middle class families. Show some respect.

Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 10:17 PMBy: comment has been removed Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted sorry for the delay --
the posting that used profane language has been removed.
keep it clean, folks, and on topic, or your comment with be removed and you may be banned from commenting.
-- alexander

Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 10:09 AMBy: To Neighborhood Teacher and Neighbor Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Neighborhood Teacher,

Your point is that test scores citywide are on the upswing so we should look at where the Ravenswood students are going to high school. However, the problem with this formula is that the time Mr. Roche has been at Ravenswood is not enough time to correct any flaws in the educational curriculum to significantly increase the number of students accepted to "selective enrollment schools". In addition, it seems as if some of the teachers at Ravenswood were not receptive to his attempts to alter their way of teaching the material. In order to make a significant impact on test scores, you need to start sooner than 5th grade and have teachers/parents who embrace the improvement model.

In answer to your question, however, I worked with students at Ravenswood this year to help them fill out high school applications. The students I worked with, for the most part, did not have sufficient scores to even APPLY for selective enrollment schools. They also didn't seem to have an understanding of the scores/grades that are necessary to get into these schools. Who's fault is that? the principals? the guidance couselor? the teachers? I have no idea - but it was not fun being put in the position of telling these students the reality of the situation.

Regarding the students, I am frankly surprised about all the claimed discipline problems. The students I worked with were polite and respectful and I enjoyed getting to know them. It seemed to me that what they lacked was knowledge about what was required to get into the school of their choice.

To neighbor - I agree.

If the discipline is a problem at Ravenswood, I don't think the primary responsibility for behavior modifications belongs at the principal's door. Parents are the ones that need to get involved in order to address this problem - they are the only ones that can significantly influence their child's behavior or correct it.

I also live in the Ravenswood community and you are right; upper-class people are NOT sending there kids to Ravenswood. It is the now struggling middle class that is also trying to find a home at their neighborhood school.

Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 11:53 AMBy: to being counter Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Being Counter -

It is obvious that you are angry. Can you explain how "the hispanic community" is being disrespected? I assume you mean at Ravenswood. I'm confused. By whom? How? Please give some specifics so I can understand your position and where this anger is coming from.

Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 1:16 PMBy: to C & I Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted C & I -

Mr. Roche wanted to introduce "balanced literacy" similar to a model used at Burley elementary (a neighborhood school with great results in the area of language arts). I believe it involves, in part, use of "literacy centers" and pulling students into smaller groups to work on problems/difficulties they may be having i.e. comprehension. He also wanted to introduce 8 week assessment tests to determine whether the students had grasped the material taught. If the tests revealed that the students were not understanding a particular lesson (for example, fractions) he believed that the teachers needed to alter the way it was taught so that the students were understanding and grasping the material.
He also was focused on the 7th grade math curriculum. He felt it wasn't strong enough and that it was one of the reasons the students were not performing as well as they should on standardized tests.

Regarding the "rising test scores", if they don't really reflect improvement at Ravenswood, is it true that rising scores at other schools also reflect a false sense of improvement? Please explain.

Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 3:08 PMBy: Being Counter Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted To Dennis -

Some movies to throw in the queue -
"The Conversation"
"Conspiracy Theory"
"Enemy of the State"

As usual in exchanges such as these, the paranoid reveal more about themselves than those they purport to expose..

Sorry, I have not read what I am sure are your many writings outside this forum. Your remarks here have repeated enough of the same themes that I don't feel the need to do extra-credit reading to better understand your personality.

But hey, do let me know what I owe you for use of the word research©. I didn't know that word was copyrighted.

Are all the answers to the math quiz '4', or has it been just luck of the draw? (I'm creating a crib sheet to your spam filter, Alexander; we plagerists need all the help we can get... :)

Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 9:01 PMBy: Being Counter Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted That's what I get for reading.

Your link is hinky.

Just as well; APlus is Duncan's propaganda tool.

Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 1:53 AMBy: Concerned Parent Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted As I read through all these postings, I can't help but think that when it comes down to it, I still feel like the fundamental question of "How will our children best be served?" gets lost in the clutter. The Ravenswood problem, as it stands now, is so multi-layered. Yes, it has stirred up emotions about class and employer/employee relations. It has made people say some terrible things. It brings us to the Title I discussion, which shouldn't even be a discussion, because you can't make decisions based on how to keep those funds - if your school demographics are changing, they're changing. But, ultimately, it should be about wanting a principal that will try to achieve a good education for the kids in the school. I do believe Erin Roche was whole-heartedly trying to accomplish this. I also believe he is somewhat introverted and maybe not as transparent or out-going as people would have liked. I think the attacks about discipline are outrageous. The numbers for disciplinary actions at Ravenswood are very good. I think they are no worse than with the previous principal, and that much of what is discussed about is anecdotal and not based on a true comparison of principal to principal. Test scores are up, and I don't think it's only because the tests have been dumbed down. Not to mention, it's hard to judge students in the upper grades, and would be more accurate to see how students who have learned under Mr. Roche's leadership over a number of years have fared. My BIGGEST concern is that there is a feeling that the school is teacher run, in that they can oust a principal so easily. There are some great teachers at Ravenswood. But, there are a lot of teachers who have taught the same lessons plans for years and are unwilling to learn new techniques and catch up to current education standards. It's ridiculous. I've talked with student teachers coming out of school and they are appalled that teachers are still using Basil readers and teaching the same way they did 10 or 15 years ago. In any profession, there is a certain amount of continuing education, where you need to keep yourself current with your profession, and I think many teachers are unwilling to do this. Yes, it's more work, but only until the new technique is learned. The bottom line is, it is essential for the teachers to make the transition, so the kids are getting the best education possible. How can they possibly succeed as they head of to high school, if they're receiving a second rate education? It would seem to me that this also drives the Title I discussion, as with Title I funds, it's free money and does not actually have to be earned with performance. If teachers are no longer willing to be the best teachers they can be, how can we expect them to be making good educational decisions for our children on a daily basis? That question haunts me.

Many people want this to be about class or race, but that line has been drawn by parents who have been at the school longer and seem threatened by change. Change is hard, but it's not necessarily bad. New families have also brought in a lot more volunteerism and fundraising for the school. I think some of the feeling that Erin Roche is more friendly to certain parents (that happen to be white, or newer, or middle-class, or however you want to define them) has to do with the fact that they are at the school volunteering time all the time. He is familiar and appreciative. And, as I mentioned, he is somewhat introverted. I have volunteered at the school, and I have the occasional conversation with Erin Roche, when I have a question and set up an appointment to talk. But, I take no offense when we pass and nothing is said. I have no doubt that the parents who complain that he'll only give him "two minutes" don't make an appointment. I am confident that if they asked for one, he'd be happy to oblige. That's how a meeting is made. The newer parents coming in embrace the diversity of the school and many have chosen the school based on this quality. We want it to be a unified school, we want parents to want to work together to make the school the best it can be for our children. It would seem that that would be a simple idea to implement. Don't we all want a great education for our kids?

Finally, this is NOT about gentrification. The neighborhood that Ravenswood serves has included an affluent and middle-class component for many many years. It's nothing new. Most of these people don't send their kids to Ravenswood, they go to private schools. The influx of middle-class families is not related as much to gentrification, but more to a feeling that families living in the city feel like they should be able to send their kids to a public school and they chose Ravenswood based on the merit of Erin Roche and some of the teachers he hired (some of which I'm sure we'll, sadly, lose). Many are out of boundary enrollees, but that shouldn't ruffle anyone's feathers, as many of the lower-income kids are out of boundary as well. It's change people. It might be uncomfortable, but you need to deal with it. You should feel proud that they chose this school.

Unfortunately, no matter what the outcome, Ravenswood will backslide at least a few years of it's progress, simply by the loss of confidence in the school and the loss of good teachers that will certainly happen with Erin Roche's departure (teachers he already hired or teachers he would have hired).

I want the best possible education for my child and I think I should be able to get that in a public school. I'd like to be able to get that in my neighborhood school. Is that possible?

Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 9:53 AMBy: Kristin Lotane Things I've been thinking about - for what it's worth I agree with both of you. I have spent the past few days pouring over SIPAAA documents for a variety of Chicago public schools. I have also been reviewing the Ravenswood budget information that is available. My take away is that there is indeed a flaw in the system and I think that the budget is not a peripheral discussion. It seems that there is a "welfare mentality" in some Chicago public schools with Ravenswood being at the forefront. As was mentioned above, schools are not reward financially for doing well but rather for attracting families that qualify for NCLB funds. We are not on a level playing field but I am out investigating schools that have handled this situation better. I'm not sure if the climate is conducive to actually taking a hard look at all the issues because it can't be boiled down to one simple issue - just one precipating event. Furthermore, I think "concerned" has hit the nail on the head that there is a perception that the teachers are running the school. If that is true, are we just hitting our head against the wall because so many of them have been there so long that they are tenured and can afford to dedicate all their time to this issue because it is their "primary" job rather than our (parents) "second" job. Just some things to chew on.

Thought for the day "Always hold firm to the thought that each one of us can do someing to the bring some portion of misery to an end."

Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 10:57 AMBy: Dennis Frank Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Lewis--
Thank you for your thorough explanation of Title 1 specifically at Ravenswood. I was cavalier with my comments, and I stand corrected. I don't think I will personally will find the training productive, but I do know parents who will. I apologize if I was offensive, truly.

Concerned Parent--
Your post is comprehensive and offers the best, diplomatic overview of the situation with the same question mark(s) as I have. I hope you will run on for the LSC because I believe you to be fair minded.

Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 2:35 PMBy: Dennis Frank Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Lewis--
Thanks for taking the time and effort to clarify issues regarding Title 1 around Ravenswood. I humbly apologize for any cavalier remarks in this area. I am merely troubled by the unsubstantiated specter of funding loss juxtaposed with incoming families, which has clear inroads to the teacher rep(s). I will not participate in the training, but thank you anways, and rest assured, there will be interested parents attending.

Kristin Lotane and Concerned Parent--
Thank you for the first-ever, unbiased and diplomatic overview of the situation at large, you exhibit much-needed sanity, and I hope you run for the LSC this Spring, for I will vote for you.

Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 10:00 AMBy: Rabble Roused Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Some points I'd like to reinforce:

- measuring the improvement in acceptance rate for Ravenswood Students going into high school would be a very poor indicator of Erin Roche's performance. As stated above, Mr. Roche started in 2005/2006. The children who will have benefitted the most from the changes he brought with him are now in the 2nd through 4th grades. Like a plant that has been through hard times, the resuscitation starts at the roots, works and begins working its way up the stalk, even while some of the leaves still show signs of the hard times experienced earlier. So you will see the grades and test scores reflected at Ravenswood. Ravenswood was not a disastrously performing school prior to Mr. Roche coming on board, but it was underperforming vs. the state and national averages. The test scores show that since his arrival, particularly in the earlier grades, the school was beginning to catch up quickly. And the improvement affected all demographics in those age groups, which is why the class-based resentment echoed here by the champions of status quo and divisiveness is utterly ridiculous.

- hinging the direction of Ravenswood school on maximizing Title I funding is disastrous in terms of vision. That's like a Major League Baseball team focusing its strategy on maximizing the amount of luxury tax profit it receives from other teams in the league instead of trying to boost attendance by winning some games. Let Title I come as it may. We have Title I families at Ravenswood and that is absolutely fine. To manage the school in such a way as to actively seek Title I funding is a backwards strategy. Let's focus on increased funding from overall attendance, and from the new, more flexible, less-limited funding that the involved parents group FORS can bring in. The parental involvement that FORS brings to the table is not exclusive in terms of types of parents and families involved, and can bring in more money than simple parental donations (fund drives, political awareness, state/local funding, corporate matching, etc.). Putting all of the chips on Title I is short-sighted and uninspiring. Check out some of the other examples of successful "turnaround" schools on the North Side and you'll see that Title I funding concerns are well back in the rearview mirror and nobody worries about them anymore. Ravenswood can and should do the same.

- I believe that there really are some Ravenswood teachers on this blog throwing out their tired and desperate sentiments of status quo and divisive exclusion. I don't think that uninvolved parties are trolling this blog looking to start up a rau for the fun of it. Take note that in years past, before the improvements and involvement that Erin Roche helped to inspire, there was a lot less involvement and attention to the issues at Ravenswood (facts about low LSC meeting turnout, low Parental involvement in the school have been cited by several parties, and I've heard those comments myself from teachers and parents at the school). The passions arising right now are genuine on both sides of the dispute. The forces who wish to fight change and who resent any change in the overwhelming Hispanic population % are real people, and some of them are teachers.

- I can attest that Mr. Frank is a real person. He is not 'Courtney'. He is a concerned and involved parent who is upset at a what really is a bad decision by the LSC.

- Erin Roche is not involved in any of the outpouring of comments on this blog. Even his letter and quotes were posted here by Ravenswood parents, and not at his direction. I'm very disappointed in the decision by the LSC not to renew his contract, and I know the decision was a mistake. And contrary to what the forces of status quo think, Erin and I have only spoken briefly a couple of times when I was evaluating the school. He does not spend his time fawning over the "new" parents. He wouldn't remember me if you tied him up and waterboarded him. He has been far to busy working on many, many fronts to improve teaching, learning, facilities, funding, etc. to be lobbying any demographic for any particular agenda. The fact that he's too busy working on behalf of all students to remember me or to stop by and lobby me for money because I'm a "new" parent is indicative of his focus and I admire him for it. The fear and resentment issues presented by the folks behind his ouster are just ridiculous. His methods are sound, his approach is professional, and the improvements he brought to the school are real, measurable, and valid. The personality issues I can't answer as they are entirely subjective, but his attempts to connect to the Hispanic culture at the school are impressive and laudable to me, and the criticisms I've heard here are petty and disingenuous as far as I'm concerned.

- to the parents who are questioning whether Ravenswood school is the right school for their children, please hang in there. If we join together firmly, politely, and with the clear mission to improve Ravenswood for all students (regardless of background), we can continue the turnaround despite the negative voices and the bad decision on Erin Roche. Improvement and change can be achieved. Let's put our collective positive energy back into that mission.

Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 9:45 AMBy: Natalie Waechter Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted By the way, I know that many of you who have contributed to this blog are actually doing a lot of work toward making Ravenswood successful.

Thank you for your commitment and support.

Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 2:58 PMBy: Natalie Waechter Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted To 'Dear Talk is Cheap'

Oh, by no means do I say that this blog and getting involved at the school are mutually exclusive. I am all for venting and getting frustration out even if it has to be anonymously. And, I agree, this blog can serve to set the direction for a future course of action at the school.

But, when there are only 5 Principal Selection Committee (PSC) member applications, and less than that for the LSC at this time, it has to make me wonder when people are going to start acting!

The energy put forth on this blog could ALSO be used to further the efforts at Ravenswood is all that I am saying.

So, I hope to see you all there at SIPAA meeting this Thursday night, January 21 from 5:00-7:00 pm.

And, I hope to see your your PSC application in the LSC mailbox in the LSC mailbox by the extended deadline of January 20.

I am also looking forward to seeing you at the FORS meeting on Monday night, January 25 at 6:30 at Bethany Church.

Just for future reference, the next LSC meeting will be on March 5 at

Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 3:58 PMBy: Natalie Waechter Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Great Idea! I will work on that today!

Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 9:07 PMBy: Dates Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted I think you meant February 20th and 21st in your last posts.

Thank you!

Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 1:49 PMBy: Leslie Janes Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Thanks, Natalie for pushing this forward in a positive way.

I have gotten some new insight to what parents (from grades other than my children) are looking for and what teachers may be looking for. I am looking forward to being an active part of the SIPAAA and PSC along with parents from other grades and teachers from all grades/subjects.

It would be a shame if the issues of the past month pull the school's reputation and forward momentum down.

By the way -- I would make #3 on the PSC list of five :)

Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 4:41 PMBy: update Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted others may know more, but my understanding is that the principal selection committee has been named and is being trained in preparation for a new search. this involves posting the job, interviewing candidates, and narrowing down to a set of finalists. in the meantime, mr. roche is continuing to share his past reviews and is appealing his dismissal. anyone know anything more?

-- alexander

Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 5:56 PMBy: Dennis Frank Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted The PSC was selected last Sat. with faculty and parents, with alternates after a training session with Dr. Bill Rice. Tonight is the 2nd of 3 forums this week in nailing down the schedule and moving forward towards reviewing resumes and setting up interviews.

Sun Mar 2, 2008 at 10:51 PMBy: Deborah Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Reading all of this is so intense. It seems there is a big question on how the LSC's are actually run. I can say that the LSC at Blaine School is so toxic and vile that it's become the event to attend every month. This all came about because one parent is actually doing their job, asking valid questions regarding: SIPAAA & Budget and she's being deemed a trouble maker. It's like, "How dare you question the principal, or ask questions at all."

LSC's seem to be stacked with "entrenched" teachers who sit on there for years and years, parent reps who don't take their positions seriously or maybe they have their own personal agenda. The audience is filled with a "bully crowd" and NO ONE from downtown will look at what's happening! The AIO is involved in the cover and it seems downtown is too. Is it proper for schools to stack their accounts with 100's of thousands of dollars and not indicate what it's earmarked for? What is a reasonable amount of money to keep rolling over to the next year? Does money have anything to do with the principal at Curie not getting her contract renewed?

Seems that our state keeps talking about School Funding Reform, how can some schools hoard all of this money and not get it to the students and teachers? Some schools can hardly fundraise $1000. (instead of spending so much time on fundraising, we need to march on Springfield to demand REAL School Funding Reform! HB750 is still alive, www.ctbaonline.org)

The real issue is all about what is best for the students, their interest is suppose to be the focus! Not just select groups of students---ALL STUDENTS! The main focus shouldn't be how pretty the school grounds are, how good the playlots are. It's about the academics, the books, the needs of the teachers and students, low class sizes, teacher assistants, communication, etc...
The system is so unbalanced and dirty.

I'd love to see a blog set up to discuss LSC's.

Good luck to Ravenswood! I hope there's a good resolve for what's happening. Responsible parents & community people- get out there and get involved, turn it around. (That's what I hope happens at Blaine!) Speak up even if your voice shakes!

Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 12:14 PMBy: Jenn Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Call me ignorant, naive, whatever...but, I believe in LSC's and support their goal and purpose. I do think however, that they need much more support from CPS. I am on my school's LSC first as a community rep then as a parent rep and it has been a struggle to navigate the system but it is worth it. The only complaint I have is with the LSC Relations Dept - they are set up to be the support system for this group and they fail miserably. Although our LSC was dysfunctional for years, we are now working together to hire a new principal and from my perspective it is going well. LSCs are not the problem, the problems rests with the system set up to support their efforts - the LSC Relations Dept. Perhaps Ravenswood's loss will be our gain.

Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 6:26 PMBy: Curious George Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted What happened at the LSC meeting on Wednesday?

Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 12:37 PMBy: Dennis Frank Looking to the Future-- Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious Thursday RAVENSWOOD ELEMENTARY LSC ELECTIONS

Local School Council Elections are being held
on April 17, 2008 at your neighborhood
Chicago Public School. Polls are open at the
school from 6:00 am to 7:00 pm.
Come out and make a difference in your community!

Local School Councils are the site-based
management team of each school.
Their primary
responsibilities include:
1. Selecting the school’s principal and
renewing the principal’s contract.
2. Developing the School Improvement
Plan for Advancing Academic Achievement
(SIPAAA).
3. Determining how the annual school
budget is allocated.
4. Creating a climate of high expectations
and accountability around
administrative and teacher performance.

Local School Councils are made up of
the principal, teachers, parents and
community members and consist of 11
voting members:
1 - Principal
6 - Parent Representatives
2 - Community Representatives
2 - Teacher Representatives

As a community member, you are eligible to vote for
up to 5 candidates on the Parent and Community Representatives ballot (one ballot).

Check the CPS website for the actual streets in the
Ravenswood community that can vote if you live
in the community. If Ravenswood is your neighborhood
home school, you can come down and vote, whether your
child goes to Ravenswood or not. Proof of residency is
required.

Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 10:45 PMBy: Dennis Frank LSC voting Election Process
Everyone over the age of 18 may vote at all schools where they are eligible. Parents may vote at schools in their area and any school where they have a child in attendance. Voters do not need to be citizens and are eligible at the elementary and high school in their area. Voters can vote for any combination of community and parent representatives, but may only vote for five candidates.
From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_School_Councils

Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 7:28 PMBy: Just wondering Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted How is that teachers that aren't on the LSC have access to the applying principals' resumes at Ravenswood? Is this standard procedure and do ALL teachers have access to this if they aren't on the LSC or Principal Selection Committee? Just wondering.

Wed May 14, 2008 at 4:21 PMBy: Hannah Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted OH BOO OOH to the people who wish he was stayin i go ravenswood an Mr.Roach (lol) is terrible he doesn't have a good disapline plan he never doea ANYTHING he spent all our money on the mulitmedia room an WIFI CONNECTION and other crap we dont need because of him Art,Musis an library are being cut so i hate him he sucks an it not just my opioion it s the 5-8 grades opinion we all cant stand him

Thu May 15, 2008 at 9:31 PMBy: LSC Confused? Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted "...works with teachers to provide instructional and curricular support in differentiating instruction and meeting individual student needs, and assists teachers in using assessment to inform instruction in their classrooms..." How does this come under the purview of the LSC? Isn't their funtion to spend the chapter 1 funds, evaluate and hire principals? What is an LSC person doing in any classroom? "Assisting teachers???" Did I miss something?

What is "Hannah" doing on the blog? Shouldn't she assist someone with homework?

Thu May 15, 2008 at 10:12 PMBy: Mooooooo! Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Yes, the member you speak of is "assisting" in her daughter's classroom and I'm not sure of her help in the others. We've all heard the rumor that her friend is the new principal that's been hired. Fair? Probably not. Not to also mention the teachers weren't told that there was going to be a vote at the forum held for the potential principal candidates. This vote was to apparently tally who teachers/community members/parents/students thought was the best candidate for Ravenswood. Nowhere on the flyers posted was it stated that a vote would be taken. The whole process has been a joke.

Thu May 22, 2008 at 2:16 PMBy: update Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted here's the information from the school about the new principal selection link

Fri May 23, 2008 at 1:15 PMBy: Colleen McVeigh Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted I do not see the need for such vitriol. But since I have been maligned, I do feel the need to respond.

To clarify--My professional capacity is working with teachers, schools and districts. That is my job. I do not work with Ravenswood. I work with other schools and other districts--most not even in Illinois. Feel better now?

As for Ravenswood, I volunteer there because it is my children's school. I have volunteered in my children's classrooms. It is what mommies do. I have also helped out in other classrooms where teachers have needed help. It's what parents and community members do.

As for the LSC, I was elected to serve on the LSC and have done so very well for two years and will do so again for another two years. I am intimately familiar with CPS budgets and the roles and responsibilities of LSC members. I worked for CPS for 15 years. I no longer work for CPS. My primary concern professionally and as an LSC member at Ravenswood and as a parent of children at Ravenswood is creating excellent educational opportunities for all children--not just mine--all.

For the record--the new principal is not a friend of mine. I met her during the interview process, as I did all the candidates. She is a nice person. She also will make an excellent principal of Ravenswood. That is why the LSC voted unanimously to offer her a contract. The process was conducted efficiently and expertly by all the members of the LSC and PSC. If teachers did not know there was to be an advisory poll at the Principal Candidate forum, they should address their colleagues on the PSC and LSC for the lack of communication. The vote itself was not binding it was an informal poll. The intention was to make the process as inclusive as possible. The process was not a joke. It was a long drawn out act of labor and love by parents, community members and teachers to make Ravenswood an excellent institution of learning. If you have any further questions or complaints, you may address the LSC at the next meeting June 5, Thursday at 5:30 pm in the Multipurpose room at the school.

Colleen McVeigh
Staff Developer, Teachers Institute, Washington DC
Facilitator, Rochelle Lee Fund, Chicago
Educational Consultant, DePaul University, Chicago
Ravenswood LSC Parent Representative
Mother to two children
20 year Ravenswood Community Member

Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 8:07 PMBy: ana Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted meooooooooooooooow said the cat

Thu Nov 27, 2008 at 9:42 PMBy: See above Riled Up At Ravenswood - New Principal Ousted Dear Curious Parent,

Start at the beginning of this thread and read down. It's pretty much all listed here.