Arne & Marilyn Do National TV News Show
Chicago Publc Schools head defends school closing proposal AP
In an appearance on CNN last night with Chicago Teachers Union president Marilyn Stewart, Duncan said that when a handful of schools aren't improving and are resisting efforts at reform, it's important to deal openly with them. He called it "a moral obligation."
Duncan defends school closings Sun Times
“These are teachers who are not resistant to change. They’re resisting in creating instability in an already unstable neighborhood,” Stewart said. “. . . If you can’t keep these talented teachers in the system, there’s something wrong with the plan.”
SEE VIDEO HERE
Watching the CNN segment, a couple of things jumped out at me. Trying to make sure that no one thinks CPS is Detroit or something, Arne tried to cast the proposal as a targeted effort in an otherwise-improving school system. But the segment -- and the CTU rhetoric -- focused on whether CPS was "blaming" teachers or not. The CNN correspondent kept hyping the conflict calling the proposal "extreme" and paraphrasing everyone's responses in the most inflammatory ways possible.
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Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 3:45 PM
Arne & Marilyn Do National TV News Show
A couple of thoughts while watching the video:
1. Does CNN not realize that Arne and the Mayor have already been doing this for 5 years? The CNN guy at one point says to Arne, "You don't actually think your proposal (to close schools) will work do you?" I laughed out loud.
2. Stewart is right about one thing, we cannot continue to blame the problems of education on teachers when they have far more to do with poverty and parenting than anything else.
3. They both talk about what is best for the students, but in the end Arne is much more concerned about keeping his job and cutting costs and Stewart is more concerned about making sure all of her teachers keep their jobs, even if all of them don't necessarily deserve to keep their jobs.
4. In the end it is going to take a lot more than great schools and great teachers to fix this problem, the sooner we admit that, the sooner we can actually move toward finding some real solutions and not just band-aids and lame compromises.
1. Does CNN not realize that Arne and the Mayor have already been doing this for 5 years? The CNN guy at one point says to Arne, "You don't actually think your proposal (to close schools) will work do you?" I laughed out loud.
2. Stewart is right about one thing, we cannot continue to blame the problems of education on teachers when they have far more to do with poverty and parenting than anything else.
3. They both talk about what is best for the students, but in the end Arne is much more concerned about keeping his job and cutting costs and Stewart is more concerned about making sure all of her teachers keep their jobs, even if all of them don't necessarily deserve to keep their jobs.
4. In the end it is going to take a lot more than great schools and great teachers to fix this problem, the sooner we admit that, the sooner we can actually move toward finding some real solutions and not just band-aids and lame compromises.
Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 5:24 PM
Arne & Marilyn Do National TV News Show
Charlie in general I agree with you. Stewart's job is to protect her members, Duncan's job to protect the CPS and the Mayor. If we look at the history of Orr CPS had the complete ability to change over the staff at the school and in reality many new teachers were brought in. Orr since it has already been reconstituted once into small schools really is a failure on the part of the CPS and the Mayor. It is also a failure on the part of our Union which has not fought to have the truth told about these bogus reform efforts and how completely demoralizing it is for teachers to instruct students with such incrediable problems as these Orr students have year after year. We call it burn out and all urban teachers know its tell tale signs, like passing out work sheet after work sheet, trying desperately not to fail 60% or more of your students because they have not compeleted even the very minimal assingments you have given or rarely pass a test. That is the reality of teaching a school like Orr and many others.
Duncan, the Mayor, and the CPS as a bureaucracy have failed to take responsibility for this failure. The failure is not just based on teachers and principals, but on providing wrap around social services for Orr students most of whom live in desperate poverty. Across the street from Orr is the IL Department of Human Services Office, it is there for a reason. That reason is the incrediable number of families living on one form or another of public assistance in that community.
To bring these students and the students in the feeder schools around Orr anywhere near standards the basic social needs of these students will have to be addressed. We can get all the Gates money for new curriculum, AUSL trained teachers, wonder principals, and National Louis Univ support for these schools and little will change until the basic social needs of these students are met. Yes, CPS may be able to push up PSAE scores at Orr, they are so low that will not be hard. But for real lasting improvement that will allow these children of poverty to escape a life of poverty more must be done than getting 10 or 20% more students to read by the 11th grade at state standards and get an ACT score of 16. It costs real money, money neither CPS, the Mayor, the State of Illinois, or the Federal government is willing to spend on these children to allow to them to escape the poverty they were born into and their parents were also born into.
What we are getting is yet another happy faced reform for children whose families are in crisis and in the deepest poverty, very sad indeed. I am sad for all the burned out teachers who all started hopeful that they could make a difference in childrens lives and gave up hope for most students while trying to save the rare kid they saw the possiblity of saving. I am sad that these good teachers, many of them Black like their students and from poor families also like their students, who are being blamed for a problem much bigger than poor teaching. Schools like Orr eat teachers alive and create bad teachers out of good ones.
Duncan, the Mayor, and the CPS as a bureaucracy have failed to take responsibility for this failure. The failure is not just based on teachers and principals, but on providing wrap around social services for Orr students most of whom live in desperate poverty. Across the street from Orr is the IL Department of Human Services Office, it is there for a reason. That reason is the incrediable number of families living on one form or another of public assistance in that community.
To bring these students and the students in the feeder schools around Orr anywhere near standards the basic social needs of these students will have to be addressed. We can get all the Gates money for new curriculum, AUSL trained teachers, wonder principals, and National Louis Univ support for these schools and little will change until the basic social needs of these students are met. Yes, CPS may be able to push up PSAE scores at Orr, they are so low that will not be hard. But for real lasting improvement that will allow these children of poverty to escape a life of poverty more must be done than getting 10 or 20% more students to read by the 11th grade at state standards and get an ACT score of 16. It costs real money, money neither CPS, the Mayor, the State of Illinois, or the Federal government is willing to spend on these children to allow to them to escape the poverty they were born into and their parents were also born into.
What we are getting is yet another happy faced reform for children whose families are in crisis and in the deepest poverty, very sad indeed. I am sad for all the burned out teachers who all started hopeful that they could make a difference in childrens lives and gave up hope for most students while trying to save the rare kid they saw the possiblity of saving. I am sad that these good teachers, many of them Black like their students and from poor families also like their students, who are being blamed for a problem much bigger than poor teaching. Schools like Orr eat teachers alive and create bad teachers out of good ones.
Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 8:14 PM
Arne & Marilyn Do National TV News Show
Tom - Send your insightful comment to the mainstream media (the reporters sure aren't including it in their stories)!
Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 8:34 PM
Arne & Marilyn Do National TV News Show
Charlie and Tom,
You clearly don't know Arne Duncan. Maybe you should meet him sometime. You has no interest in protecting politicians. He's driven to improve the conditions of children in poverty. Oh, yeah. He says that in just about every speech including the one you listened to last night. I didn't hear Marilyn say that.
Maybe you should also read the research on teacher effect size on children's learning-- especially children of poverty. Hammond-Darling of Stanford U clearly should a decade ago that teachers have over 40% impact on children's learning. That's exclusive of class size by the way which decades of data show that it's a minimal impact.
Maybe you should also believe that all children can learn rather than hide behind social-environment reasons.
I hope you're not my children's teacher.
You clearly don't know Arne Duncan. Maybe you should meet him sometime. You has no interest in protecting politicians. He's driven to improve the conditions of children in poverty. Oh, yeah. He says that in just about every speech including the one you listened to last night. I didn't hear Marilyn say that.
Maybe you should also read the research on teacher effect size on children's learning-- especially children of poverty. Hammond-Darling of Stanford U clearly should a decade ago that teachers have over 40% impact on children's learning. That's exclusive of class size by the way which decades of data show that it's a minimal impact.
Maybe you should also believe that all children can learn rather than hide behind social-environment reasons.
I hope you're not my children's teacher.
Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 9:56 PM
Arne & Marilyn Do National TV News Show
Jeff,
What an ignorant comment to make. When was the last time you were the teacher in a classroom? Maybe instead of reading all that bullshit research you should take your ass into a classroom and find out if you can handle it. I doubt if you could. You'd probably drive home in tears. Arne was and remains unqualified and unfit for the job as a big city schools chief.
What an ignorant comment to make. When was the last time you were the teacher in a classroom? Maybe instead of reading all that bullshit research you should take your ass into a classroom and find out if you can handle it. I doubt if you could. You'd probably drive home in tears. Arne was and remains unqualified and unfit for the job as a big city schools chief.
Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 9:15 AM
Arne & Marilyn Do National TV News Show
I'm not, nor have I ever hid behind the socio-economic issues that my students have faced, and I have firmly believed that all of my students have the potential and ability to learn anything I put in front of them. But to ignore the environments that these students are coming from is, well, ignorant.
So teachers only make up 40% of the impact on a student's learning, I think that number proves my point. For all of the good and hard work a teacher does, at the end of the day it doesn't even make up half of the factors that will effect a students learning. I wonder if the other 60% is primarily due to parental support and the environment in which students spend the rest of their time...
So teachers only make up 40% of the impact on a student's learning, I think that number proves my point. For all of the good and hard work a teacher does, at the end of the day it doesn't even make up half of the factors that will effect a students learning. I wonder if the other 60% is primarily due to parental support and the environment in which students spend the rest of their time...
Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 11:47 AM
Arne & Marilyn Do National TV News Show
Has CPS ever tried to do a Potemkin school? Say, take an elementary school that is serving desperately poor students, reduce the class sizes to 15 or lower, use only veteran educators, provide wrap around services, and keep the project going for 8 years and see what the impact is on both the oldest students high school work and the scores of all the students?
If it worked, at least they could then say, look, we can get every child prepared for high school but it will cost $$$, and we can quantify how many dollars. And if it didn't work, then everyone could return to the drawing board and come up with something that could work.
Even if it didn't work, at the least 300 students would have had a better shot at a decent education.
If it worked, at least they could then say, look, we can get every child prepared for high school but it will cost $$$, and we can quantify how many dollars. And if it didn't work, then everyone could return to the drawing board and come up with something that could work.
Even if it didn't work, at the least 300 students would have had a better shot at a decent education.
Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 6:49 PM
Arne & Marilyn Do National TV News Show
First time I heard this suggestion, Cermak, was back when Ken Smith was Board President. We called it "playing suburb."
The cruel truth is that Chicago has never been willing to do that, and never will. The trick in this town has always been to scapegoat, and of late inner city teachers are the scapegoats. The best way to become a "better" teacher, 35 years ago and now, was to transfer from a "failing" school to a "better" school. Ask the English teacher who transferred a quarter century ago from Austin to Whitney Young. Or the two English teachers (now retired) who went from Collins to Lane.
The difference between then and now is that under Duncan's teacher bashing ideology, the longer a teacher stays at a place like Orr or Harper, the more certain it becomes that she will eventually be show trialed, then fired, by a bunch of guys who've never spent a year in a classroom (Arne's just the leader of that pack, but it's a big one now that Mike Koldyke's back on stage) and never will.
This is Donald Trump style management. Every word out of Arne's mouth is a lie, including the spelling of his name. Sooner you realize that, the sooner your confusions will be lessened. When Justice comes, Duncan will have to spend 100 years substituting in classes of 50 and 100 with no backup at the schools where he destroyed teachers' lives while prattling those corporate sound bites. And with a guy like that, when he calls for help you should lock your door. He's earned the fate the fates will bestow.
The cruel truth is that Chicago has never been willing to do that, and never will. The trick in this town has always been to scapegoat, and of late inner city teachers are the scapegoats. The best way to become a "better" teacher, 35 years ago and now, was to transfer from a "failing" school to a "better" school. Ask the English teacher who transferred a quarter century ago from Austin to Whitney Young. Or the two English teachers (now retired) who went from Collins to Lane.
The difference between then and now is that under Duncan's teacher bashing ideology, the longer a teacher stays at a place like Orr or Harper, the more certain it becomes that she will eventually be show trialed, then fired, by a bunch of guys who've never spent a year in a classroom (Arne's just the leader of that pack, but it's a big one now that Mike Koldyke's back on stage) and never will.
This is Donald Trump style management. Every word out of Arne's mouth is a lie, including the spelling of his name. Sooner you realize that, the sooner your confusions will be lessened. When Justice comes, Duncan will have to spend 100 years substituting in classes of 50 and 100 with no backup at the schools where he destroyed teachers' lives while prattling those corporate sound bites. And with a guy like that, when he calls for help you should lock your door. He's earned the fate the fates will bestow.
Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 5:07 AM
Arne & Marilyn Do National TV News Show
You want a successful high school? You need to start with kids who are pre-K. Do the parents know how to raise a child or does their child rearing technique consist of yelling, threatening or hitting? Are there books in the home and does the toddler see people reading? Is he or she read to? Without this, the child's literacy skills will most likely lag forever, as he or she will not value the written word. Is there a social fabric to the neighborhood the child lives in? If you see a kid throwing garbage on the ground in front of your house, can you tell him to pick it up? Can you tell his parents? As the child gets through high school, does the child have access to modern technology, such as counseling, social services, psychological services, appropriate medication prescribed by psychiatrists? Is education valued in the family? Is the child given homework time and made to see the importance of it? What about the school? What is the learning environment like? Is it a place where the child can learn safely and the child feels valued, or is it a place of danger where all the teacher can do is spend all of his or her time keeping the class under control? I hope in the school turnaround, all these factors are addressed. If they are only looking at the school piece and ignoring the community, this will lead to another failure.
Fri Feb 8, 2008 at 9:38 PM
Arne & Marilyn Do National TV News Show
I think several of you are hitting a key problem on the head - too many schools and districts are focusing on becoming social service centers rather than educating children.
Being poor does not mean that you cannot learn. I believe in research and for those naysayers perhaps they should realize that the research that says that teachers are a significant factory was done in what are called outlier schools meaning that they are schools with high numbers of low SES children.
I teach in Title I schools, and I push MY children - what is disheartening is to see so many people lower expectations and make excuses for why children can't succeed. They are not succeeding because we aren't giving them the opportunity to compete. It is not a coincidence that the students in these schools say themselves that the schools that they attend aren't challenging.
So when I see Arne firing teachers, zeroing out schools, etc., I can't say tha tI'm mad. Especially, since most school districts, and I'm sure CPS is no different, usually identify their "keepers" before they close down the school.
Being poor does not mean that you cannot learn. I believe in research and for those naysayers perhaps they should realize that the research that says that teachers are a significant factory was done in what are called outlier schools meaning that they are schools with high numbers of low SES children.
I teach in Title I schools, and I push MY children - what is disheartening is to see so many people lower expectations and make excuses for why children can't succeed. They are not succeeding because we aren't giving them the opportunity to compete. It is not a coincidence that the students in these schools say themselves that the schools that they attend aren't challenging.
So when I see Arne firing teachers, zeroing out schools, etc., I can't say tha tI'm mad. Especially, since most school districts, and I'm sure CPS is no different, usually identify their "keepers" before they close down the school.
